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Thread: West Mercia - AOLQ Condition

  1. #1

    West Mercia - AOLQ Condition

    Seems like someone asked the question why West Mercia wont grant the AOLQ condition as per the Force Website:
    "The West Midlands Region (West Mercia, Warwickshire, West Midlands and Staffordshire Police Forces) have legitimately, and unanimously, decided not to incorporate this new condition."

    The response from the webchat is here: Web Chat | Get Involved

    "West Mercia Police does not apply a blanket refusal on the 'any lawful quarry' condition. Similarly, we will not automatically apply this condition to every West Mercia Firearm Certificate without justification.
    Each application for a variation to a firearms certificate is individually assessed to ensure that 'Good Reason' exists for that particular calibre weapon to be acquired. The request has to be supported by the nomination of a parcel of land (deemed safe and suitable for that particular calibre weapon), written permission from the land owner and confirmation that the listed quarry (fox, deer, wild boar etc) is present on this land.
    The applicant’s experience with firearms (calibres used, ammunition expended etc.) is also taken into consideration for each application.
    Generally, the firearms certificate conditions (customarily applied by West Mercia Police) do not restrict any shooter from pursuing their chosen pastime; and, unless any such restriction is apparent, we will not apply the 'any lawful quarry' condition.
    Any individual who wishes to add the 'any lawful quarry' condition to their firearm certificate can however submit a written request containing the information outlined above, and we will assess that individual's suitability for the requested firearms condition."

    Now I'm a bit baffled - on the one hand they say they wont incorporate the condition, then they say you can apply for it and they'll think about it?

  2. #2
    Maybe a Freedom Of Information request asking how many certificates they have issued with the AOLQ condition on would reveal the truth behind that one? I suspect it will be zero, but agree that what they have posted is totally contradictory - maybe one of the shooting orgs would feel it worthwhile taking it up with them?

    I believe flytie had some extensive dealings with them that may have led to the statement being posted on the website? Or was it a different force?

  3. #3
    I just don't get it. You would think that this condition would make life easier for the police, leaving the onus on the shooter where it should legitimately be. Unfortunately this apparent mania to control and micro-manage every tiniest detail is what breeds resentment.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by JabaliHunter View Post
    I just don't get it. You would think that this condition would make life easier for the police, leaving the onus on the shooter where it should legitimately be. Unfortunately this apparent mania to control and micro-manage every tiniest detail is what breeds resentment.
    Spot on.

    When will they realise that all they are doing is alienating one of the most law-abiding sections of society? Perhaps if one of the shooting orgs were to support a member and tackle this kind of rubbish head on and force the issue with, for example, West Mercia, Cheshire etc., maybe by Judicial Review, it might make them actually start applying the HO & ACPO Guidance?

  5. #5
    No Orion, twas me that has had dealings with the Firearms Licensing Department of WMC about AOLQ. To quote Mr Himsworth himself, "We have only had two other applications for it, and we saw no reason to grant them". They will not countenance it.

    And the minister in charge of shooting matters, Mr James Brokenshire MP, will not enforce the ACPO guidance on such things, saying,"It is up to each Constabulary to form their own opinion on such matters". When pressed by me to answer why he continued to fund ACPO when its guidance was flouted by certain police authorities, he refused to answer anymore questions on the matter. My MP, Harriet Baldwin, suggested that I try and get on the Police Liason Committee as there was nothing else she could do for me.

    I had thought that Minsters of the Crown were duty bound to answer questions put by MP's. It seems that I was mistaken. What price democracy?

    Last edited by flytie; 28-08-2011 at 18:55. Reason: editing for god's sake!
    Blindness to suffering is an inherent consequence of natural selection. Nature is neither kind nor cruel but fiercely indifferent.

  6. #6
    Yes Minister?
    (The Unspeakable In Pursuit Of The Uneatable.) " If I can help, I will help!." Former S.A.C.S. member!

  7. #7
    I had it straifgt from the horses mouth in staffordshire.
    " we have not nor will we ever adopt this condition or there would be no need for conditions on an fac"
    My rely, " i rest my case".
    This proves that it is not about public safety which was the origonal answer to my question as to why i could not have this condition on my fac. It is all about control and bullying.
    They have stopped me shooting wild boar in the past even with a letter from the estate saying that i had booked with them to shoot boar. I asked them to add this previously so that i could go and shoot boar and wild goats at any time and at short notice. They refused saying that i needed proof of booking and on reciept of confirmation they would return my cert within 24 hrs. This of course did not happen as they decided to argue that there was no wild boar in scotland and the local police for that area classed them as vermin. No problem then, add vermin to my cert for the 7mm. Can't do that as 7mm is to large for vermin. ahhhhhh
    I went and shot a wild boar/verminous pig whatever they want to call it using an estate rifle and then sent the photo to the feo asking again for them to be added to my cert. Waste of time.
    I contacted sacs about this problem and others that i was having. Job done but still unfortunately no aolq condition. They said that they would add species to my conditions as i required them.
    So much for cost cutting and efficency. My son applied for both fac and sgc 4 months ago but still has not had a visit, i sent in my sgc renewal 3 months ago and have not had a visit. I have had a letter saying that a temporary permit will be issued shortly. They will have to be quick as my old one runs out on the 4th sept.

  8. #8
    This really ****** me off.... you need to give good reason to own a rifle, we all know and accept that, but where in the firearms act does it say that you need good reason to shoot a particular species? The only bit I can find is where it says evidence of species on the land may be required and that FEOs may call upon the knowledge of local keepers and landowners.... or applicants wishing to buy stalking days will be required to provide evidence of a booking or invite.
    "It's halfway down the hill, directly below that tree next to a rock that looks like a bell-end"

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