dogs and how to start training

Steyer 6.5

Well-Known Member
Hi Guys

can anyone point me in the right direction as to which breed most of you use and how you went about training them..:confused:

I got a ESS that does some nose work but not sure if finding game would be a conflict of issues

Views adn comments accepted

Steyer 6.5
 
I would imagine trying to train an ESS for deer work and general shoot work would be quite a challenge. I'm not saying impossible, but if you want a deer dog then have a deer dog. The choice of breed depends on what you want the dog to do. If it is solely for tracking shot/wounded large game my recommendation would be a bavarian mountain hound, but that is only my preference.
 
Hi Guys

can anyone point me in the right direction as to which breed most of you use and how you went about training them..:confused:

I got a ESS that does some nose work but not sure if finding game would be a conflict of issues

Views adn comments accepted

Steyer 6.5

send me a pm with your emaill address i will send you some pdf files to read to get you started
 
Have you trained dogs before ESS would not be the obvious choice for deer work.The working dog kennels in my area do give training to owners and dogs might be an idear to look some up in your area.
 
I got a ESS that does some nose work but not sure if finding game would be a conflict of issues

If you were asked to point out a house brick, and on another day a wheely bin, would you struggle?

An ESS is MORE than capable of being trained to be a deer dog. It will certainly track both dead and wounded deer. They will never pull a deer down. The main problem with an ESS would be keeping it sensible and under full control (at heal, off lead) while you are out. Trained from 8 weeks old this is not a problem. Trying to train an older dog will be a problem (but not impossible)

BMH are probably as good as it gets for tracking dead/wounded deer. Not as good at indicating live deer. Some lines have temperement problems.

Labs are great at staying close, good at heal and reasonable at tracking but lack the controlled aggression needed to pull a wounded deer down

HPR's are good at all aspects of deer stalking. Deciding which breed within the HPR's will be your hardest choice. Keep away from the show bred dogs, and most of the Field Trial dogs as they can be too hot for a novice trainer to handle. Also make sure the dog is going to be fit for purpose. No good having one of the now popular GSP's that resemble whippets as they get cold quickly and are too light to bring down a dog

Go on the HPR Forum and see what you fancy

Buy from a REPUTABLE breeder and NOT someone who has had just a couple years in the breed. Buy from stock that works DEER. Be patient, as most good deer dogs will not "click" until around 2 years old. Most of all, DO YOUR RESEARCH and don't listen to those who sing the praises of ANY breed if 1, its the only breed they have ever owned for working on deer and 2, they are not willing to take you out and prove what they are saying ;)

Remember. The best dogs for anything are the dogs bred to do the job. ie Retrievers are the best retrievers. Pointers are the best pointers. Hounds are the best trackers. HPR's are the best hunters, pointers and retrievers. They will never be better at each element than a dog bred for the specific purpose, but having an HPR means you do not need 3 dogs ;)
 
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Most important from above is buy a dog with parents that are trained to deer no matter what breed they are,labs can also have the "controlled aggression" that dog tired is talking about,it never ceases to amaze me when people say that
If you have experience of dogs and know what you're doing go for a german wirehair,if you know what your doing!If your inexperienced go for a lab,from deer orientated parents if possible,not easy most are used at pegs,get the right line of labs though and they can do the job well
Often scottish dogs,major generalisation and I don't know why but they seem to work deer better
I have trained numerous breeds and it's hard to beat either the furry alligator or the lab
 
As you don't actually have a dedicated deer dog as yet I don't see any big problem in experimenting with the spaniel just to see what he would do. As pointed out an ESS would not be first choice for a deer dog but I have one at 9 who could be an excellent deer dog. I have used him to locate dead and by the way he grabs them by the throat I would think he would bring down at least roe.
 
He is a big ESS and his temperament is questionable. Is a good working dog but I have to watch him with other male dogs.
 
Hi Guys

can anyone point me in the right direction as to which breed most of you use and how you went about training them..:confused:

I got a ESS that does some nose work but not sure if finding game would be a conflict of issues

Views adn comments accepted

Steyer 6.5

The BDS are holding a Deer dog training day on Sept 24 near Newbury. A fair distance away from you but I would argue you will learn and see more on that one day then you would from studying books. What is one day if your hound gives you 10 yearts pleasure?
 
the 24th i'm fishing a charity fly fishing competion for charity and got sponsership or would have gone to that ill check their website for other dates.

Cheers
 
I have used him to locate dead and by the way he grabs them by the throat I would think he would bring down at least roe.

not to sure they will
once the roe tried to stand I'm sure a springer will release, it's not in their nature to be that aggressive but I may be wrong
mine would rag a muntie or even at times if it felt like it would drag a munty back to me, but a live one seemed to be a different case
no idea why , over the years most of my springers hav acted like it
but put it on a pheasant ,goose ,duck rabbit hare pigeon etc
there is no way he would leave the trail on land or water and defo would not let it go untill I took it off him
he loved his retrieves which made him a good tracking dog, but not a good deer dog
thats springers for you ,
they hav their own traits and the way you harness that energy is the way forward, some hav got some don't want it
 
My experience with different breeds has been pretty much the same you can train any dog to do what you want. They are on this planet to please so if they get rewarded with praise they will do what you want them to do. Its how much natural instinct they have which makes them better than others at hunting. ESS, Labs have not been bread to kill, their instinct is to hunt/find/flush, stay close and retreave.

Three golden rules for training - number 1 always train in a controlled enviroment with the dog on a long lead to check them, also with pleanty of scent around them; a rabbit pen for instance. If you don't have control in a pen you are never going to get in the field! Number 2. get them hunting first then control how they do it, use a whistle with hand signals. Spoken commands, you will start raising your voice if they/you get it wrong .........disaster for the field everyone will know your dogs name including the local deer population! Get it hunting first then under control you can start to put basic commands into the training.... for example sitting to a low whistle or a click of the fingers then progressing to sitting at distance......... If you spend all your time getting it to walk to heel it will be focused on that rather than hunting, let the dog hunt walking just in front of you but make sure in training there is scent to be found it will then know that being with boss/dad is great he knows were all the scent/birds and animals are, section bluff I know but he will never know........rule number three have fun and enjoy the dog will repond to this and when you do get excited about that six pointer it will not respond as much as ....just silly old boss/dad again. There long for golden rules these?!

Hope this helps as a starter and enjoy!
 
My experience with different breeds has been pretty much the same you can train any dog to do what you want. They are on this planet to please so if they get rewarded with praise they will do what you want them to do. Its how much natural instinct they have which makes them better than others at hunting. ESS, Labs have not been bread to kill, their instinct is to hunt/find/flush, stay close and retreave.

Three golden rules for training - number 1 always train in a controlled enviroment with the dog on a long lead to check them, also with pleanty of scent around them; a rabbit pen for instance. If you don't have control in a pen you are never going to get in the field! Number 2. get them hunting first then control how they do it, use a whistle with hand signals. Spoken commands, you will start raising your voice if they/you get it wrong .........disaster for the field everyone will know your dogs name including the local deer population! Get it hunting first then under control you can start to put basic commands into the training.... for example sitting to a low whistle or a click of the fingers then progressing to sitting at distance......... If you spend all your time getting it to walk to heel it will be focused on that rather than hunting, let the dog hunt walking just in front of you but make sure in training there is scent to be found it will then know that being with boss/dad is great he knows were all the scent/birds and animals are, section bluff I know but he will never know........rule number three have fun and enjoy the dog will repond to this and when you do get excited about that six pointer it will not respond as much as ....just silly old boss/dad again. There long for golden rules these?!

Hope this helps as a starter and enjoy!

Mark,I personally would not train a deer dog as you describe
1.I would not start the dog on a leash,as soon as it is off it,it will know,i try an keep training away from scent(apart from blood trails,in as scent free a place as possible,so dog knows what it is suppossed to be following)
2.I would in no way say a deer dog should be hunting first,99% of a deer dog's time is spent at heel
3.Basic obedience is the cornerstone of good,solid,reliable dogs,it is also the boring part which is so often not done thoroughly enough
4.2 short training sessions in a day/dog is plenty,10 to 20 minutes at a time,don't bore your dog
5.I dont use a whistle when training a deer dog,hand signals yes,but again this takes time
6.I would agree to make the training as fun as possible,again don't bore your dog
 
The BDS are holding a Deer dog training day on Sept 24 near Newbury. A fair distance away from you but I would argue you will learn and see more on that one day then you would from studying books. What is one day if your hound gives you 10 yearts pleasure?

The BDS are also having an "advanced" bday on Sept 25. Same place. You will see more practical work and less theory. Normally there is plenty of time to talk if anything is not clear.
 
Mark,I personally would not train a deer dog as you describe
1.I would not start the dog on a leash,as soon as it is off it,it will know,i try an keep training away from scent(apart from blood trails,in as scent free a place as possible,so dog knows what it is suppossed to be following)
2.I would in no way say a deer dog should be hunting first,99% of a deer dog's time is spent at heel
3.Basic obedience is the cornerstone of good,solid,reliable dogs,it is also the boring part which is so often not done thoroughly enough
4.2 short training sessions in a day/dog is plenty,10 to 20 minutes at a time,don't bore your dog
5.I dont use a whistle when training a deer dog,hand signals yes,but again this takes time
6.I would agree to make the training as fun as possible,again don't bore your dog

Hi Wolverine,

I accept what you are saying, My experience and rules I apply have served me well for example I have a doberman visla x which should never be able to stalk deer if you go by the book! (Would get confussed do I guard it or fetch it?!). I did with him as I train my gun dogs, he is fantastic walks to heel, sits when I stop, works to basic hand signals (sit and move on) and if I am in a high seat will lie down, sit up if he scents deer and has never failed to find a shot deer. Dogs get a high from scent any scent the fresher it is the bigger the high. I like to make training as real as it can be in the field. Where I stalk there is a pheasant shoot so we maybe tracking around pricked and shot birds.

My reasons to your points:
1. The leash starts as a 15meter light cord that is reduced in length until not needed. After a while its not even held...just their in case with a tug on the ear to correct not the leash. Never had a problem with a dog knowing it was no longer there or it was getting shorter.
2. What is the dog doing at heel?....hunting! I am happier knowing the dog is hunting and not just walking to heel. I understand where your coming from though just my experience.
3. All four of my dogs I feel would do ok in an obedience test, they are not a polished item in that respect but do as required no hesitation and that includes two springers!!
4. Totally agree 20 minutes max training sessions.
5. I find the whistle a lot better than shouting and if out of sight in thick cover as many of my deer go when shot, hand signals well.....and if he has got his head down tracking a shot deer without wing mirrors fitted he ain't going to see me hands, I just hate shouting after dogs. Also found one sharp blow on a dog whistle for him to sit will not always spook a deer, shouting well......

I am not saying your wrong not for me to do that, what works for you......it's just my experience and what works for me. The above just explains my reasons for doing it my way.

Good hunting
 
I accept what you're saying Mark,as you say what works for you works for you
My dogs will indicate deer ahead at heel,sit for hours when/if I am out of sight,come back to whistle,steady to all game,find dead/wounded deer,if necessary pull down or bay wounded deer,I have with all dogs I have trained never shirked on obedience work(not saying you do)but so many do,you end up with better dogs in the long run if they are steady and biddable
This is why I would not let dogs hunt before they are ready to listen to me,each to their own,you can let them hunt and then wind them back in,however I find this a lot harder to then guarantee a steady,biddable pal
Just my opinion and not meant to cause offence at all,as you say what works for you
 
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