Stalkers V Pheasant shoots

matt308

Well-Known Member
Following on from the previous thread, (I didn't want to hijack it) but it raises an interesting point. I have a couple of permissions where the farmer says I can't go on after about August for fear of "upsetting the shoot". I think the argument is that I would disturb the birds somehow. Another farmer, who runs a biggish commercial shoot doesn't seem to mind at all, though. I do not go on, or just before, shoot days, though.

I think stalking is pretty low impact compared to dog walkers, for example. I'm a stalker, after all - the clue is in the name.

I have had run-ins with possessive gamekeepers years ago, so always keep out of the way, but it does irk me a bit. Particularly when I know the keeper shoots a few deer when I'm off the land in winter. How come he doesn't disturb them? Also makes the doe cull a bit difficult, not least because I don't know how many he's shot.

So, should we be out of the way during the bird season, or am I being too submissive? BTW, I am not going to start arguing with farmers or keepers, whatever you lot think. I am happy enough with the status quo and I like a quiet life.

Matt
 
The anwers I think is in your first paragraph, if the farmer says not to disturb the shoot then if he is the landowner then that is just the way it is. Landowners are free to put conditions on access and as long as they are made clear before you sign a contract or shake hands then that is just the way it is. Quiet reasoning over a beer may change someones mind but bickering seldom does. On many shooots a few roe does/hinds are a 'keepers perk, and doing them out it can lead to unpleasantness. A good 'keeper is hard to find and harder to keep, finding someone to pay to shoot the deer in your corn fields is easy.
None of the above applies if the farmer is not the landowner, then your contract is with the landowner and if he does not prohibit access then you will have to smooth things over with the shoot/tenant farmer with a silk tongue and maybe start the conversation by taking the cork out of a good malt.
 
The anwers I think is in your first paragraph, if the farmer says not to disturb the shoot then if he is the landowner then that is just the way it is. Landowners are free to put conditions on access and as long as they are made clear before you sign a contract or shake hands then that is just the way it is. Quiet reasoning over a beer may change someones mind but bickering seldom does. On many shooots a few roe does/hinds are a 'keepers perk, and doing them out it can lead to unpleasantness. A good 'keeper is hard to find and harder to keep, finding someone to pay to shoot the deer in your corn fields is easy.
None of the above applies if the farmer is not the landowner, then your contract is with the landowner and if he does not prohibit access then you will have to smooth things over with the shoot/tenant farmer with a silk tongue and maybe start the conversation by taking the cork out of a good malt.

+1 here landowners put down rules you follow them or move on. Right or wrong thats how it is.
 
+1 other.
I stalk on all sorts of places big commercial shoot where deer are not welcome in drives and new plantings I am told if there are too many deer in any drive.other places shoot foxes first or else.I always make it clear if others are shooting I do not want to be near the woods to cause friction.answer is cooperation not Conflict:doh:
 
All agreed. Conflict is very much not my scene. I am just wondering whether it is normal and whether others have the same restrictions.
 
Yes.
But i've been around a while and volantary suggest quiet times just before and after a shoot.
The deer are often gone anyway.
It all works for the best in the long run better to get on with keepers then not.
Keepers appreciate the thought.
 
one of my permissions has a pheasant shoot but they only have about 8 days so i have dates and shoot weekends in between
I must say though that on a lot of shoots if 20 beaters with sticks and dogs plus hundreds of shots from 12 bores dont scare the pheasant off then i am sure the odd rifle shot wont
 
I suppose the bigger issuse is if the shoot is paying for the rights or the keepers job is at stake then why would anyone want to jepordise it
Stalking takes place mostly at dawn/dusk
birds are either coming off roost or going upto roost
these are the times birds need to be left quiet, disturbed at this time can put them off for days especially if hand feeding as it comes more noticable
plus birds become familiar so a stranger stalking around them may put them off a little and the crack from an unsilinced rifle will put the wind up multiple pens and especialy the ducks
I stalk on land which has a farmers shoot on it and also on land I helper keeper on also
so I hav a bit of savvy about me when it comes to be sympathetic to the other keepers/shoot owners
if the owner says leave it for a bit then leave it
if the keeper shoots a few then it's his problem if the birds don't play ball
most of all I would try my hardest to get in with the keeper and play by his rules a little
that way you are in a win , win situ
it may take a couple of seasons but it will be worth it if it works out
more ground is lost or gained because of the keeper's say so, than any cash placed in a land owners hand

something worth bearing in mind , if the keeper is of an unaproachable mind set then you hav your work cut out
but most are happy for an experienced and genuine helper to lend a hand
 
Met the keeper this morning. First time since last shoot season. hes part time and his birds have just come.
He started last year and was very stand offish.
told him shot a fox 2 nights ago from a high seat.
Today he told me he saw a nice buck yesterday and 3 deer this morning so his trust is now gained.
takes time but pays off.
 
As it happens, I bumped into one of the keepers from the commercial shoot tonight on the way home. I'd pulled of the road to glass the land for the hell of it. He was a bit suspicious (not unexpectedly) and it was a slightly awkward exchange but there was no particular problem. I had expected a slightly more appreciative reaction, though, when I said I got a fox last night. Not a flicker! More work needed methinks!
 
Just remember some folk treat lamping as an olympic sport and practise it on many evenings. These folk may not actually appreciate you shooting 'their' foxes. Better to discuss the weather or ask about the breeding of the dogs in the back of the truck and leave specifics of things killed on 'their' ground untill the rapport has been established.
I'm not advocating being timid but suggesting that entering the big boys club is not easy when dealing with folk who work 360some days a year and have a handfull of days to prove their worth. It takes a bit of work, it takes time, but a 'keeper on your side is priceless and can determine how much pleasure you get from shooting any given piece of land.
 
Ah well. At least I now know his name and vehicle. A few friendly waves, and we'll be well on the way.
 
I run a large syndicate shoot, lamp foxes and stalk.

We have a rule: No shooting is to be carried out near any of the release pens once the birds are in! (rifle or shotgun)

We do however still lamp and stalk well away from the pens.

I'm not keen on others shooting at the foxes as over lamping creates more effort on our part!

That said....keep the peace, talk to them and discuss the rules...offer to help out on lamping outings etc. Good relations which you seem to be working towards will come with time.

Good luck.
 
Hello

There are a number of points here and I do see both sides of the story.

Firstly as a keeper I have to think very carefully about where I take stalkers and when so that it does not effect the shooting on my shoot. Secondly as a tenent stalker as part of stalking in england I have to deal with 2 other estates that we do not have the game shooting on but are keepered. The only way around this is trust from the keeper involved and understanding of all aspects of the job.

Keepers by nature are very careful about how they deal with people and who they deal with, In the main because too many of us have had the **** taken the moment we turn our backs. Work with the keeper who in many cases has a job and home at stake, dont take the **** or push your luck.

If I were keeping on a place where the stalking was let to a third party I would come down on them like a ton of bricks if I thought they were jepadizing a years work in anyway. That said an extra pair of eyes on the place is very helpfull providing you have gained the keepers trust. It is up to the stalker to prove themselves as trust worthy and complient. Once proved the keeper will probably be a friend for life.

Mark
 
I wouldn't mind, but I've been stalking the land for 15 years. The shoot only arrived a few seasons ago. Bottom line; they pay big money. I pay nowt! I'll be as nice as pie and friendlier than a big friendly thing :D
 
Seriously, I am very grateful for the input. I appreciate the first hand advice from actual keepers. I was not aware of the issues they have. I am now. Cheers guys. This is why I joined.
 
I wouldn't mind, but I've been stalking the land for 15 years. The shoot only arrived a few seasons ago. Bottom line; they pay big money. I pay nowt! I'll be as nice as pie and friendlier than a big friendly thing :D

Thats the way. Are you suffolk born and bred?
 
I am sure in time you will become an intrinsic part of the team of folk involved in the estate duties. None of the stuff written above is meant to put you down. I have helped keepers and stalkers, each one has things they need to achieve and each one will sometimes think the other party is standing in their way. At the end of the day no man is an island and sooner or later you will do each other a good turn and the wrinkles will be smoothed out.
 
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