whats the consensus of opinion on this

widows son

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Print [h=1]31 under-10s issued shotgun licence[/h]
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31 October 2011 07:51pm More than 30 children aged under 10 in England and Wales were issued with shotgun licences in the last three years, official figures revealed.
The statistics show 11 certificates were issued to under-10s last year, five in 2009 and 15 in 2008.
The figures were obtained by Labour MP Thomas Docherty, who has campaigned for a change in the law to set a minimum age for holding a shotgun licence.
Children are not allowed to use a gun unsupervised until they are 15, but the Dunfermline and West Fife MP said the rules were "really weak".
Mr Docherty said: "Society as a whole is deeply uncomfortable with the idea of a seven-year-old having access to a lethal weapon.
"I have not heard a single coherent argument for why a seven-year-old, who has no legal culpability, should be allowed to have unfettered access to fire a firearm."
Mr Docherty, who earlier this year launched a parliamentary bid to ban under-14s from holding a licence, said senior police agreed with the need for a minimum age.
The Association of Chief Police Officers had argued that 10 would be a suitable minimum age.
Mr Docherty said: "Do we have to wait until we get a tragic accident involving a seven or eight-year-old before we take action?"
The MP said he understood why people needed guns for land management and sporting purposes and stressed: "I'm not trying to ban it."
© The Press Association
 
Children need to be able to be granted SGC's in their name for as long as the law remains an ass. If the law simply stated that any person could use a shotgun under the direct personal supervision of a SGC holder over 18 years of age then there would be no need. As it stands the only way a youngster can learn to shoot is at a clay ground with a suitable exemption (is it section 11, I forget?) or if they hold an SGC.

Children shouldn't need a cert but as things are they do. Why shouldn't I be able to take a friend out and let them use my gun under my supervision?
 
News home > UK
Print 31 under-10s issued shotgun licence


N0383371320088554789ABXUK_5x4.jpg

31 October 2011 07:51pm More than 30 children aged under 10 in England and Wales were issued with shotgun licences in the last three years, official figures revealed.
The statistics show 11 certificates were issued to under-10s last year, five in 2009 and 15 in 2008.
The figures were obtained by Labour MP Thomas Docherty, who has campaigned for a change in the law to set a minimum age for holding a shotgun licence.
Children are not allowed to use a gun unsupervised until they are 15, but the Dunfermline and West Fife MP said the rules were "really weak".
Mr Docherty said: "Society as a whole is deeply uncomfortable with the idea of a seven-year-old having access to a lethal weapon.who asked society i never heard any thing
"I have not heard a single coherent argument for why a seven-year-old, who has no legal culpability, should be allowed to have unfettered access to fire a firearm."they cannot have unfettered access to a firearm or ammunition has he read his own statement .they require supervision
Mr Docherty, who earlier this year launched a parliamentary bid to ban under-14s from holding a licence, said senior police agreed with the need for a minimum age.
The Association of Chief Police Officers had argued that 10 would be a suitable minimum age.
Mr Docherty said: "Do we have to wait until we get a tragic accident involving a seven or eight-year-old before we take action?"it hasn't happened so far i wonder why oh that right there supervised by a responsible adult
The MP said he understood why people needed guns for land management and sporting purposes and stressed: "I'm not trying to ban it.""yet""
© The Press Association


This is Labour at there best instead of trying to put the country back on its feet, no that would be to hard, lets hit something easily dealt with, GUN's ,they'll have everyone that doesn't like anything jumping on the band waggon, again .

These MPs are over paid and way under worked no doubt a ex shop steward out of some where that went down the tubes .
 
Sounds like a politician trying to make gain out of nothing (as usual). Funny how he agrees that 10 should be the minimum age, why 10 yet not 9 or 8 or 7 or 11 for that matter. Where does he get this 'society as a whole is deeply uncomfortable'.......total b0ll0ck5. Talk to child psychologists and you'll find most would agree that 10 is too young for the vast majority of children to be deemed culpable (the two scrotes that killed Jamie Bulger being perfect exceptions to the rule) 13-14 being a more reasonable age.
 
News home > UK
Print 31 under-10s issued shotgun licence


N0383371320088554789ABXUK_5x4.jpg

31 October 2011 07:51pm More than 30 children aged under 10 in England and Wales were issued with shotgun licences in the last three years, official figures revealed.
The statistics show 11 certificates were issued to under-10s last year, five in 2009 and 15 in 2008.
The figures were obtained by Labour MP Thomas Docherty, who has campaigned for a change in the law to set a minimum age for holding a shotgun licence.
Children are not allowed to use a gun unsupervised until they are 15, but the Dunfermline and West Fife MP said the rules were "really weak".
Mr Docherty said: "Society as a whole is deeply uncomfortable with the idea of a seven-year-old having access to a lethal weapon.
"I have not heard a single coherent argument for why a seven-year-old, who has no legal culpability, should be allowed to have unfettered access to fire a firearm."
Mr Docherty, who earlier this year launched a parliamentary bid to ban under-14s from holding a licence, said senior police agreed with the need for a minimum age.
The Association of Chief Police Officers had argued that 10 would be a suitable minimum age.
Mr Docherty said: "Do we have to wait until we get a tragic accident involving a seven or eight-year-old before we take action?"
The MP said he understood why people needed guns for land management and sporting purposes and stressed: "I'm not trying to ban it."
© The Press Association
This MP appears to be ignorant of what the law actually permits. i.e. supervised access to shooting by the child certificate holder with a weapon and ammunition that he is not allowed to obtain for himself, this is most definately not "unfettered access to fire a firearm" as claimed
 
and thirded

Can I add how many of these young people who are keen enough to get a certificate ever get into trouble with the police.
Every young person who I know that comes shooting is
well behaved
respectful
normally takes delight in dressing tidily
Etc etc


But I am just an :old:who belives in good maners
 
I am of the opinion that 10 is too young although I do think children who live in a household where guns are kept should be aware of the dangers and respectful of gun handling safety. The only way to do this is by involving them and allowing supervised access, my 8yr old helps me re-load and has been out pigeon shooting with me. I even showed him how to dispatch a winged bird.
I was brought up on a farm, shotguns were no big deal to me as they were a part of daily life, I was never allowed to use them until I was about 15 but they were there. I learned to drive a car as soon as my feet could reach the pedals and drove my first tractor aged 9
We had a log fire and regularly burned rubbish on a bonfire.... as a result I have never found starting fires to be fascinating, more of a chore. Nor have I ever felt the urge to steal a car and go joyriding. Sorry to go off on a tangent but my example highlights the importance of youngsters being given the chance to partake in what some consider to be dangerous activities. It teaches them respect and discipline.

My wife is a primary school teacher and she thinks 10 is too young too
 
I have shot since I was 8. I did not kill anyone and I have the upmost respect for Shotguns/Firearms.

The sooner people learn the better imo.
 
1. should be allowed to have unfettered access to fire a firearm."

2. Mr Docherty said: "Do we have to wait until we get a tragic accident involving a seven or eight-year-old before we take action?"

3. The MP said he understood why people needed guns for land management and sporting purposes and stressed: "I'm not trying to ban it."
© The Press Association

1. I am not sure that the law as it currently stands constitutes "unfettered access"

2. If we look ahead to any possible accident related to any activity whatsoever then we would ban everything.

3. Of course he is not trying to ban it he is just using the furore that he knows his emotive stance will create for his own political/egotistical ends.
 
I am of the opinion that 10 is too young

Fair enough we're all entitled to our opinions... but , if you don't mind me asking, why do you think such a "generalised" view is a valid opinion?


I learned to drive a car as soon as my feet could reach the pedals and drove my first tractor aged 9

Me too, so your view on shotguns puzzles me even more now.

Here's a sobering page to watch for a few minutes, in relation to road traffic accidents. The "Global" figure ticks over as you watch, each time it goes up that's another tragedy. http://www.uk-roadsafety.co.uk/Rs_Documents/accident_count.htm I am unable to find a comparable page for sporting firearms "accidents".

Of course, underage driving on the public highway is illegal. However, there is no such law about driving on private land and no "license" is required for that at all. So, given your own upbringing/experience I can't see why you would think shotguns should be any different (even though they are, as it happens) especially given that "accidents" involving shotguns and 10 year old users therof are, as far as I'm aware, simply unheard of in the UK.

Sorry to go off on a tangent but my example highlights the importance of youngsters being given the chance to partake in what some consider to be dangerous activities. It teaches them respect and discipline.

Well I totally agree with that, but now you seem to be contradicting your opening assertion.

I'd say if the child is being supervised by a suitable adult and the equipment fits the child, it can only be good for safety, not bad. The law already alleviates the honourable a***hole's concerns. He just lacks the wit to accept this as he's clearly more intent on homing in on an easy boost to his "public profile".

If tangents are relevant... I remember seeing a televison article showing pre-teens being given "official" driving lessons in one of the Scandinavian countries. The idea being, to familiarise them with the technical aspects of vehicle usage long before allowing them to go on public roads and learn actual roadcraft and then acquire their full road licenses. Very sensible if you ask me.
 
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Using my own Son as an example.... I have no problem with him having a go with mine under supervision but I'm not sure he will be mature enough in 2yrs time to own a shotgun. By that I mean having his own certificate and unsupervised access to it.
I remember my mates from school coming to our farm and saying "go on Si, get your Dads gun out".... when your Dad's got guns it makes you very popular at school. I wasn't that interested and didn't apply for my own certificate until my mid 20's
 
Children are deemed as answerable for their actions at the age of 8 (in Scots law at least). That is simply because the average child should know the difference between right and wrong at this age. And in my opinion, and based on my own 9 and 10 year olds abilities, they do.

That said, I cannot see the necessity for them to possess a piece of paper saying they are SG certificate holders. They still cannot wander about as they want without supervision.

I have set up the .22RF and the .17HMr and allowed both my boys to shoot with them whilst lying down alongside them. In my widest dreams though, I would not allow them to handle a firearm of any description without me standing right by their side so I can still maintain a degree of control over where that gun is pointed and what their fingers are doing next to the trigger.
 
I think that if your children have the respect and enthusiasm for shooting then we should encourage it, I have my boys shooting with me allot of the time whether it be for crow, pigeon, rabbit etc... When we are out with shotguns I allow my boys to bring the .410 and they will use it under my supervision and behave responsibly with it. They have both been around a form of shooting since they were quite young as we used to co run a clay pigeon club in Hampshire where they would help out by filling the odd trap or picking up empty cartridges and as a reward were allowed to shoot static clays with a folding .410. I have found with this input in to shooting and being shown safety in a safe controlled environment we would have no worries. Both have asked for a shotgun license but I have said no because I do not see the point in them applying for one and going through all the hoops and heart ache as they cannot legally buy a gun, ammo or go out without me. The law needs to allow young people the right to shoot but be sensible if they are with SGC or FAC holder who by this is deemed responsible then by all means this should be legal. My boys are 10 and 8 yrs of age.
 
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I have to agree with Si here, i think that 10 is far to young to have a SGC. Frankly, there is no need... I am all for encouraging shooting sports for youngsters and If i am lucky enough to have a son or daughter that shows an interest in shooting, he or she will be aloud to come along with me. I just don't understand why a child that young needs to have their own SGC? If they cant access the gun on their own legally, it is basically makes it a piece of non-sensical paper...
 
only 30, that's a start. I would hope that this figure increases as shooting is simply just another sport for young people to enjoy. Why is it different to say fishing?!
 
I have to agree with Si here, i think that 10 is far to young to have a SGC. Frankly, there is no need... I am all for encouraging shooting sports for youngsters and If i am lucky enough to have a son or daughter that shows an interest in shooting, he or she will be aloud to come along with me. I just don't understand why a child that young needs to have their own SGC? If they cant access the gun on their own legally, it is basically makes it a piece of non-sensical paper...

I'm always puzzled when shooting men seem to be in favour of more, rather than fewer, restrictions on our sport; especially so when no-one has been able to show that there is a public safety problem which needs solving.

Even assuming (and I don't) that the SGC for under 15s is 'a nonsensical piece of paper', why would one want to prevent its issue?

I think the world would be a better place if people who 'don't see a need' for things would just be happy to leave it at that rather than to wish those things to be denied to everybody on the basis of their highly-debateable personal opinions.
 
Because they mean nothing! At the end of the day we are talking about a child's safety! There is no way in hell that any of my kids will be using something as 'POTENTIALLY' dangerous as a firearm/shotgun without me standing right over their shoulder. For children of that age to enjoy shooting now and again with the supervision of an adult. They dont need a SGC... So why bother? Pointless.

Why are you puzzled? Its pretty simple. Im not saying that im in favour of more restrictions, but there are somethings that need to looked at to keep are sport as safe as possible. Look at Rugby and the change of laws at scrum time. The natural progression in legislation change happens when there is deemed to be a need. Just because there doesn't seem to be an issue to you and me, doesn't mean that it shouldn't be looked at.

There are some legislation's /restrictions in our sport that we may feel are unnecessary, but at the end of they day, if they help to make the sport that we love a little safer then so be it. None of the 'restrictions' stop me from enjoying shooting sports with family or friends. I would far rather live with the laws in place here than my experiences of the lack of gun laws in North America.
 
I have to agree with Si here...

Wow... that doesn't happen often :D

Seriously though, when I was 10yrs old I couldn't be trusted with a catapult let alone a shotgun. Obviously not all kids are the same, some more mature for their years but I definatley was not one of them.
 
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