BDS opinion wanted

Salmo Salar

Well-Known Member
Can someone from BDS tell me and others that may be interested if they represent Estates that have wiped out their deer populations in the name of Grouse recovery - If they do why?.
Or if having heard of it happening have they done anything to oppose it or if they have just remained silent. Bearing in mind there quotes.
"The British Deer Society strives to ensure that there is a sustainable healthy population of deer in the UK that can exist in harmony with the environment and the people that live there, look after it, or visit it".

"We are, and will always wish to remain, the premier organisation promoting deer welfare and best management principles in deer management."
 
Can someone from BDS tell me and others that may be interested if they represent Estates that have wiped out their deer populations in the name of Grouse recovery - If they do why?.
Or if having heard of it happening have they done anything to oppose it or if they have just remained silent. Bearing in mind there quotes.
"The British Deer Society strives to ensure that there is a sustainable healthy population of deer in the UK that can exist in harmony with the environment and the people that live there, look after it, or visit it".

"We are, and will always wish to remain, the premier organisation promoting deer welfare and best management principles in deer management."

SS

I guess from your inference you know of an estate where this has happened and are looking for a debate...

Why not name the estate if thats the case and put your known facts forward if you have any

As a member of the BDS i enjoy the Wessex Branch and events.. As with everything in life you get out of it what you put in

Terry
 
Can someone from BDS tell me and others that may be interested if they represent Estates that have wiped out their deer populations in the name of Grouse recovery.

I hardly think they would 'represent' anyone. They are a registered charity which limits them in many aspects of their work - including political lobbying.
 
Being from an IT background this is a very blatant example of the technique known as "trolling" - this involves starting inflammatory discussion threads with no real basis in fact and not quote specifics just to annoy a specific group of the forums users. This "trolling" is very often frowned upon by IT site administrators and on some internet forums it has been reason enough to ban users.

I suggest that specific incidents are named, or the BASC or BDS contacted personally if it is felt that there are serious issues. An internet forum is not the place to bring up this sort of thing and try to "spoil for a fight" like this.
 
Mark Nicholson (Chairman of BDS) touched on this issue in his opening piece for the Autumn 2011 issue of Deer
I will try and scan it but unfortunately it won't be until Monday...
 
The estate in question is in the Angus glens, but I dont think they are alone. If no one else is brave enough to back my assertions fair enough. But I know I'm not the only one who realises this is happening.

SS, Apologies - it seemed from your lack of naming and shaming the estate in question that this thread was just to stir up strong feelings about the subject matter.

I have to say I agree that there should be a careful and balanced approach to all things in shooting (which is why I am a member of both BASC and BDS) but also recognise that it is very hard to police such an ideal and very hard to create laws that are fair to govern it.

I can see peoples concern that if more legislation is brought into play for Deer Stalking then some governing body, or the police, will have to decide what quotas you are allowed to shoot on your own land. This may well cause issues if an experienced Deer manager believes a cull quota to be a set number and is then told he is not allowed to cull that number by a bureaucrat in an office who has been given the power to decide cull targets. It is a very tricky issue and as various people have said, if they are not operating outside the law it is very hard for any organisation to do anything about private landowners.

Certainly the BDS and BASC could lobby for tighter restrictions on deer management, but that would lead to more red tape and problems. It is very sad to see deer eradicated in this way, but I don't think it is fair to drop subscriptions to organisations who "aren't doing enough" about it.

As a few other people have mentioned, it may be a good idea to contact your MP or local counsellors to see what the best legal method may be for dealing with this - but I can understand the nervousness of people about changing such laws when so many of the shooters freedoms are threatened by the law already.
 
BDS cannot 'lobby' for anything if you are meaning in the political sense - their charitable status precludes it.
 
To quote their own material "SNH now have the role of promoting conservation and sustainable management of deer in Scotland".
Make of that what you will!
 
This is not BDS or anyone looking for an argument but last year up one of thr glens in perthshire stopped to chat to a keeper who had been told to hit deer hard and had shot most on the estate in an attempt to restore grouse.He went on to tell me that years ago according to game books deer were few and far between and only one stag a year was shot on the estate but it was a thriving grouse shoot.I cannot say which way it will go but who am I to argue I do not own the land.:?:
 
i dont think thyis guy is a troll.....
basically he knows about practices that some estates are said to perform....

ie....shoot the deer clean in and eradicate inorder to run the said area as a grouse estate.

he ...being a deerstalker....obviously is distressed over these practices rather than the said estates having a mixed amount of biodiversity or species.

im presuming the OP is wondering if this is common knowledge why do the shooting organisations condone it? or not try to lobby them to have both grouse and deer on their owned lands????

if this isnt the jist of what hes asking then sorry


sauer
 
I've read both threads and as a systems auditor took the view the Op was objecting to a "Mission Statement" that says "We, the business, do xxxxx" when infact they seem not to do it and therefore mislead members/sponsers etc
 
The BDS is a small charity. "If" the estate is a BDS member, how do you propose that the BDS investigate the event, they have no legal power to do this. Unless the law has been broken, its difficult to act. We might not approve of another’s management but to name and shame is easy on here, for an organisation that could be taken to court the standards of proof are much higher.
 
I am a BDS member and a fan, they do a good job with limited resources IMHO. However, some of the BDS top guys are in a difficult place politically and geographically. For one; Mark Nicholson's family estate Mar marches with nature reserves who cull very hard for regen. I saw from the recent AGM that one Board Member in the BDS doesn't need to be voted in - I'm not sure how many votes he would have got if the AGM was in Inverness-shire not Norfolk?! Salmo Salar you will no doubt be aware of the controversy surrounding the estate in question. It is a fact of course that ecomomically grouse beat deer hands down however there does seem to be some conflict of interests here I gather from locals.

Generally people seem to forget many estates in the North had there best grouse years in the 70s and 80s when deer numbers were at their highest.

Seperately I know they have tried to recruit one but I feel the BDS could do with a deer officer in Scotland, someone who would (I hope) have a voice in the SNH and would reply to the post!
 
NickJ,

The BDS in scotland has an elected committee member with a BDS regional branch who definitely has a voice within SNH and viceversa. He may even be a member on here... :-| (pssst... he is).

I don't think he's shy, but why the he'll would some one from the BDS want to rise to the fight being picked in the OP's opening post. I can't see how it could serve as being benefical or constructive. Look how far SS got in the carbon copy thread with BASC...
 
BDS cannot 'lobby' for anything if you are meaning in the political sense - their charitable
status precludes it.

The Royal Society for the Protection of Birds. Charity registered in England and Wales no 207076, in Scotland no SC037654.

What lot of C0ck,
 
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