# Thread: what gives with the hyper velocity?

1. ## what gives with the hyper velocity?

So I've been pondering this question in my head since I last went back to South Africa in July.
It appears that there is a large school of thought in the UK that subscribes to sending light bullets at deer at a very high velocity whereas in many other countries the leaning is toward heavy 'n slow.

I am fully aware of the maths behind energy, but what good is high energy if very little gets imparted on the intended target?
In my mind 1900ft/lb with no exit is better than 2400ft/lb just passing through on its way to its interstellar destination.

A counter argument is of course that light 'n fast is flat, but in reality the difference between a "flat" caliber and a "loopy" caliber, within reasonable UK stalking distances and zeroed properly, is neglible.
Further, gravity is a constant whereas wind is not, so surely it is better to have something that bucks the variable better than the constant?

The floor is open to debate....

2. both are good,personal preference i guess,i use 85gr nosler ballistic tip in my 25-06 and 150 to 165gr heads in my 30-06,have used 75gr v max in 25-06,they are flat shooting,1/2 inch high at 100 it drops just over 3 inches at 300,150gr head will drop about 13 inches with 100yd zero,lighter bullets less kick,for me more kick the better,one day i would like to have a go on a 50 cal rifle

3. I suspect the quest for high velocity is, as you say, intended to give 'flat shooting'. Though as you rightly suggest, most UK stalking-rifles if zeroed 2" high at 100yds will be about on at 200yds and 6-12" low at 300yds. I guess that if you don't have a rangefinder and are likely to shoot out to 300ish often, then the difference between 6" and 12" at 300yds is quite important. If you have a rangefinder, then perhaps it doesn't matter. If you are shooting at longish ranges, perhaps you should have a rangefinder.

The suggestion that 1900ftlb with no exit is better than 2400ftlb passing through does not seem to me to hold water.
The purpose of shooting an animal is to cause an adequately severe trauma so that it dies quickly. A bullet going all the way through is likely to have done more damage than one which doesn't make it. If all the bullet's energy were expended doing damage, then 1900ftlb still inside would undoubtedly be better, but I suspect the elastic tissues can absorb a lot of energy without suffering too much damage. Damage, not ftlb causes death; it is not the ftlb 'dumped' in the animal that counts, but the character of the work in which energy which the bullet 'dumps' in the animal is expended.

4. Originally Posted by Dalua
I suspect the quest for high velocity is, as you say, intended to give 'flat shooting'. Though as you rightly suggest, most UK stalking-rifles if zeroed 2" high at 100yds will be about on at 200yds and 6-12" low at 300yds. I guess that if you don't have a rangefinder and are likely to shoot out to 300ish often, then the difference between 6" and 12" at 300yds is quite important. If you have a rangefinder, then perhaps it doesn't matter. If you are shooting at longish ranges, perhaps you should have a rangefinder.

The suggestion that 1900ftlb with no exit is better than 2400ftlb passing through does not seem to me to hold water.
The purpose of shooting an animal is to cause an adequately severe trauma so that it dies quickly. A bullet going all the way through is likely to have done more damage than one which doesn't make it. If all the bullet's energy were expended doing damage, then 1900ftlb still inside would undoubtedly be better, but I suspect the elastic tissues can absorb a lot of energy without suffering too much damage. Damage, not ftlb causes death; it is not the ftlb 'dumped' in the animal that counts, but the character of the work in which energy which the bullet 'dumps' in the animal is expended.

Ahhh what we have here is the massive kinetic energy dump so favoured by Roy Weatherby and others. The stay inside crowd and pass through crowd shall never meet this arguement is as old as bang sticks and will continue as long as we are allowed to shoot them.

5. Originally Posted by Dalua
I suspect the quest for high velocity is, as you say, intended to give 'flat shooting'. Though as you rightly suggest, most UK stalking-rifles if zeroed 2" high at 100yds will be about on at 200yds and 6-12" low at 300yds.
a 12" drop at 300yds on a 200+yd zero is pretty extreme!
Originally Posted by Dalua
The purpose of shooting an animal is to cause an adequately severe trauma so that it dies quickly. A bullet going all the way through is likely to have done more damage than one which doesn't make it. If all the bullet's energy were expended doing damage, then 1900ftlb still inside would undoubtedly be better, but I suspect the elastic tissues can absorb a lot of energy without suffering too much damage. Damage, not ftlb causes death; it is not the ftlb 'dumped' in the animal that counts, but the character of the work in which energy which the bullet 'dumps' in the animal is expended.

depends entirely on the situation.
woodland stalking requiring a good blood trial for follow up is always going to be easier with two holes.
You dont need a huge entry and exit wound to facilitate death.
A bullet slightly nicking the aorta with a hypothetical "self sealing" entry will still kill the animal very quickly.
The blood loss from the vascular system into the chest (and in some case the abdominal) cavity reduces the blood pressure to the level where the heart has nothing to pump and animal's brain dies from oxygen starvation. In this case no blood is lost outside of the body.

IMO the fast and light vs "slow" and Heavy argument has more relevance to meat damage.
using a standard jacketed soft point, a 250gn bullet at 1700fps vs a 120gn bullet clocking 2500fps at POI are both going to kill very quickly if you put it through the top of the heart.
one is going to leave a big exit hole and destroy more meat, the other won't

6. Originally Posted by bewsher500

a 12" drop at 300yds on a 200+yd zero is pretty extreme

D'you think? That's what my .308 does with GECO 170gr roundnose bullets. Still works, though!
Gravity, eh?

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