7WSM vs. 7RM

flyingfisherman

Well-Known Member
Well, dark nights and bad weather coupled with 'shipwrecked' on tv have me running for the proverbial hills.. or more to the point, reading about calibres.

Im a 7mm convert with the 7-08 but really interested in the 7WSM. Does anyone shoot one? what are they like in comparison to a 7RM or similar? Recoil? Accuracy?

Looking in the reloading book, looks like you get more bang for your grain of powder with the 7WSM than you do with the 7RM. Also i imagine that having a shorter and fatter powder column with a steeper shoulder should make the 7WSM better in every way than the 7RM?


I like the potency of the 7RM for carrying energy long range (for targets) but also the knock down power..

So thoughts on a postcard...?
 
In a factory rifle the WSM will be built on a short action, you will lose case capacity when using the 160+ grain bullets that work best in these Calibers, in order to allow proper magazine function. A 7mm RM will be built on a long magnum action and you will have more mag length to get long bullets near the lands, you will get better performance.


The WSM can do what the RM does but not at equal pressures, the WSM will wear its throat out quicker, thereby compounding the OAL problem. The RM is a very accurate and proven round, and if you intend to use factory ammo then good luck finding somewhere with a regular stock of WSM ammo, whereas RM ammo should never be too far away.

So in conclusion if your are buying a factory rifle stick with the RM. if you are going custom then look at building a WSM on a long magnum action, then things are more or less equal. Personally I would still go with the RM even if going custom.

If you aren't planning on shooting heavier bullets, then don't bother with either just buy a .270
 
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Ok if you don't really require the magnum velocities but need/want more than the 7-08 then may I suggest you look at the old 7x64 or the 280 Rem. Both will more barrel friendly than the magnums.
 
Oh, and just to add one more point. With the 7mm WSM you have only one choice in brass which is Winchester. The supply is not that plentiful, so most people neck down 300 WSM Norma brass and then fireform. This may cause issues if you travel as your brass will not be of the correct head stamp for the cartridge on your licence, and most foreign airport staff aren't that knowledgeable on the finer points of reloading!
 
Thanks for the info guys, all very interesting. The 7-08 is great and i really like it, interesting what you say about action lengths as well. I was reading on 6mmbr about the 7WSM and vince bottomley who has built one for 1000yd BR. He went for a 7-.300 WSM opposed to the SAAMI 7WSM. He shot some tiny group at 1000yds, think it was 2.67'' or the likes.

Im looking for a rifle which i can use on reds etc but also use for long range target work. The 7-08 fills this requirement pretty well and i wouldnt get rid of it for the world, just looking for an bigger brother for it!

I would be reloading for it. Does anyone know much about recoil/noise etc between the 7WSM and the 7RM? Also, if you go for a custom action, i suppose there must be half way houses regarding actions so a full L/A mag action isnt a necessity?
 
I have a Howa in 7WSM, bought new 5 years ago and absolutely love it!. Much more accurate than me; good trigger after 5 mins. work and light. I find the recoil very much less than the Rem. Mag., which is sharp!. I agree that factory ammo is hard to find, but Rem. Mag. is hard to pay for!!.
I use 140grain SP and plastic tip and shoot roe and red at long distances (for me). I've recently added a Third Eye mod, and the recoil and noise is now very much reduced. There is still quite a muzzle flash, though, as I do stoke it up with a healthy (!) charge of N560. Never yet had to scrap a case, or 'trim' one for that matter. I have yet to come across a real down side to the rifle/cartridge.
 
Thanks for the info guys, all very interesting. The 7-08 is great and i really like it, interesting what you say about action lengths as well. I was reading on 6mmbr about the 7WSM and vince bottomley who has built one for 1000yd BR. He went for a 7-.300 WSM opposed to the SAAMI 7WSM. He shot some tiny group at 1000yds, think it was 2.67'' or the likes.

Im looking for a rifle which i can use on reds etc but also use for long range target work. The 7-08 fills this requirement pretty well and i wouldnt get rid of it for the world, just looking for an bigger brother for it!

I would be reloading for it. Does anyone know much about recoil/noise etc between the 7WSM and the 7RM? Also, if you go for a custom action, i suppose there must be half way houses regarding actions so a full L/A mag action isnt a necessity?

Yes Vince did shoot an amazingly small group at 1000 yds, but that was in a dedicated LR competition rifle. As you say you want to use the rifle on reds and target work, then issues like reliable mag feeding come into play, you could build a WSM on a short action but the mag length will restrict the performace of the cartridge wit hheavier bullets, and you will not see much gain over your 7mm-08.

A magnum cartridge is a magnum cartridge, they all have some degree of bark upon firing, but other factors such as bullet weight, rifle weight, and stock design have a major factor in perceived recoil.

Regards actions, most dedicated WSM actions are just short actions with magnum boltfaces, the Surgeon 591 WSM goes slightly further by having a lengthened loading port and extended bolt stop travel, The Stiller predator has these features as standard, but you will still run into the afformentioned issues with either of these actions, unless you go single shot. A long action with magnum boltface is a better option as you only gain less than an inch in length and 3oz in weight, but you are no longer restricted on your OAL and you can let the cartridge perform to its maximum potential.
 
my 7RM was a pussy cat to shoot. More of a shove than the sharp recoil of say a 243. In fact i found it nicer to shoot than the synthetic sako 75 I had in 243!!!!DONT shoot one without a mod though if you like hearing!!!
 
Ben,

I've had two rifles in 7mm RM, so I can give you one side of the story.

The first was a custom job that I bought second hand. It used a Rem 700 action and an AICS stock. It fed flawlessly and was extremely accurate (well beyond my capabilities). Recoil was negligble due to its weight, which was excessive. It was built as an F Class rifle and the guy who bought it from me planned to use it to shoot reds from a high seat. It would take a fit and strong person to climb up a seat with it and in my opinion this would be the only type of "stalking" that it might just about be suitable for.

My current RM is a Sako 85 S/S. Recoil without a mod or break is at the limit of what is acceptable to me. I am a wuss with recoil. It is very loud without a mod and acceptable with one.

Probably the main thing that's surprised me is how much a mod unbalances the rifle. I have an 85 in 6.5 Swede which has (I think) a 20" barrel. It handles acceptably with my Northstar. The 7mm has (I think) a twenty five inch barrel. It needs to be that length to get the best out of the cartridge. The same Northstar mod on the 7mm makes it very barrel heavy. I am looking at either a very light mod (TLD) or a brake.

There weren't many RMs around when I bought mine. It was a special order through GMK with a four month waiting time. I've had no problem getting new and once fired cases for it. I've never bought factory ammunition for it but I believe it starts at about £50 for twenty.

Hope this helps.

Bob
 
Ben

They both have advants and disadvants and I would say danpd has covered these all better than I could.

I would say that I have never had a short mag which has fed reliably.

On the other hand I have had several RM's in the past which haven't had an issue with feeding.

The short mag will produce less felt recoil, my theory is because of the short powder stack but this is only a theory of mine.

You won't go wrong with either but I would bear the feed issue in mind if I were you and the mag well length when considering the short mag.

As has been said if it were me I would build the WSM on a LA mag bolt face but then one of the advantages of the WSM is the fact you can get it into a short action (weight, rigidity etc).

Don't suppose that helps much though in making a decision.
 
Some very good replies and answered my questions pretty much.. What is another interesting point is that your using similar amounts of powder in both the 7RM and 7WSM for similar performance.

So why do you see more WSMs on the target scene than you see RMs? You guys who have Howa WSMs, have you had any feeding problems?

Jon - I must rob a go of your RM next time our paths cross..

Ive compared the 7-08 and 7WSM with 168gn VLDs for energy down range and the point in which the bullet goes transonic. To be fair, there isnt a great deal in it. I think the WSM profile i used (168gn VLD @ 2800fps) delivers around 1647ftlb at 500yds (transonic @ 1500yds +) compared to the 7-08 profile (same bullet doing 2600fps) 1392ftlb at 500yds, it also goes transonic at 1370yds.

I dont know what im trying to achieve by looking at the data but there doesnt seem a lot between the two. I would love to have a go with the WSM and RM and compare..
 
The reason you see a lot of WSMs on the target scene is because they are a very fickle bunch, and each season they look for the edge that will propel them into the hall of fame. before the WSM fad, 6.5x284 was the darling of the 1000yd and F class crowd, now the .284 Winchester is very popular as it offers 95% of the ballistics of the WSM with less powder, Less recoil and better barrel life, i guarantee you in 3-4 years time another cartridge will rule the roost. Reallistically if these guys knuckled down and really learnt how to read and understand the wind on a very high level, there would be a lot of different calibers which could get the job done. If a guy started winning matches with an RM you could almost guarantee that others would follow, and pretty soon the forums and magazines would be praising the RMs amazing ballistics and incredible accuracy, then Lapua would make brass for it and everyone would use one for 4-5 years until something else new or old stepped into the limelight. Gunsmiths love it, as people are constantly queueing up for rebarrels, new dies, and brass and powders its not in their interest to talk people out of the new dream rifle.
 
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On taking delivery of the Howa WSM, feeding was a complete Gang***k, a simple solution was had by some tweaking of the mag lips & follower spring, now it will feed in any acceptable / expected position in the field.
 
On taking delivery of the Howa WSM, feeding was a complete Gang***k, a simple solution was had by some tweaking of the mag lips & follower spring, now it will feed in any acceptable / expected position in the field.

And yet mine fed fine out of the box, and continues to do so . . . eh Steve.
FlyBoy270
 
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