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Thread: A startling item here

  1. #1

    A startling item here

    Who ELSE knows where your guns are stored?

    From our club site,(Phoenix). Can you imagine the reaction of your firearms licensing department if you told a perfect stranger that you had guns at home, and gave him your name and address? I suggest that they would be VERY unhappy with you for this breach of security.

    Well, it seems that some firearms licensing departments are doing this for us.

    We have been told that the Met, Sussex, Gloucestershire, Hampshire and West Yorkshire Police (and perhaps others) are sending letters to your doctor's surgery to tell them when you have a certificate granted or renewed. This means that doctors, receptionists, nurses, practice managers, clerks cleaners etc in your surgery will have access to the information that you have guns at home, and will know your name and address.

    Worse, the letter states that "this means that they [the certificate holder] may have more or less immediate access to firearms and ammunition." This statement is guaranteed to cause concern amongst those who have little or no knowledge of our sport.
    Did the police tell you they were going to do this, did you give your permission to do this?

    There is a world of difference in your allowing your GP to give information to the police should they need it, (you sign to allow that on the application form) and the police giving information to the surgery - you didn't sign up for that.

    You might be interested in The Information Commissioner's Office
    Last edited by finnbear270; 07-01-2012 at 13:07.
    (The Unspeakable In Pursuit Of The Uneatable.) " If I can help, I will help!." Former S.A.C.S. member!

  2. #2
    great information to get lost in the post.

  3. #3
    Come on now Finnbear270,
    A bit of scaremongering here.
    Are you saying that ONLY Doctors should deal with correspondence received at the Surgery .If you are indeed suggesting that only Doctors deal with these matters, Applications and Renewals will take years to process.
    I think the fact you include cleaners illustrates my point. I am sure if any Medical Professional would be horrified at the thought the cleaners are privvy to such information.
    If you think that it is unacceptable for the letter to state "may have access to firearms and ammunition". This statement is unlikely to cause concern in my opinion. It simply makes it clear that the applicant may have access to firearms and ammunition. Thats it, nothing more.
    And in particular with regards to the recent tragic events in Co Durham, the fact that the FAC holder or Applicants Doctor has been informed of that, it makes it perfectly clear should they ( the Doctor) have ANY concerns whatsoever. They are left in no doubt what being granted a Certificate entails.
    I'm afraid in this current climate you should be more realistic in your concerns for the shooting fraternity.

  4. #4
    Not my thoughts from the outset, just passing on information from a trusted source, the senior firearms officer @ B.A.S.C..... who just happens to be secretary of Phoenix, (a club I belong to), so have another read & inwardly digest?
    (The Unspeakable In Pursuit Of The Uneatable.) " If I can help, I will help!." Former S.A.C.S. member!

  5. #5
    Hello again Finnbear270,
    I am not sure what you mean by "inwardly digest" however I stick by my theory that this post has been designed to get a reaction and has been posted to stir some of the smelly stuff with question marks over its authenticity.
    The EXACT same post reared its head back in August 2011 on the AirgunnBBS
    Thats why I suspect its one of these "urban legends" doing the rounds amongst the Shooting Fraternity.

  6. #6
    Some years ago Gwent police suggested to the South Wales fire service that perhaps they might like to have a list of all certificate holders so that any fire appliances attending fires in domestic properties would be aware of a potential risk to firefighters from exploding ammunition. I just happened to be in the right place at the right time when this was mentioned by one of the divisional staff officers who was looking into placing this information onto the data to cab systems that are installed in the fire engines. In theory this information would have been available to any firefighter with access to a data to cab terminal which in our case would have been over 3,000 personnel. I expressed my concern in no uncertain terms over what I considered to be a potentially very serious breach of both my security and the security of all other certificate holders in the area covered by that constabulary. I also pointed out that there could be very serious contraventions of the data protection act involved and also that while it wouldn’t go as far as to say it is impossible for ammunition to explode in bulk it is unlikely. In fact I sited two incidents that I had previously attended where shotgun cartridges simply melted in a fire into a single molten mass in the bottom of wardrobes. I also asked if the two police armed response vehicles that Gwent had on the road at that time intended to display warning notices that they were carrying ammunition so as to warn other road users in the event that either of these vehicles was involved in a fire. For some reason the matter was dropped, hopefully because of my comments and very obvious concern. I would hate to ythink that it had anything to do with the police not wishing to advertise that they were actually carrying firearms but were perfectly prepared to tell everyone else that you had firearms in your house.
    Last edited by 8x57; 07-01-2012 at 17:05.

  7. #7
    This is a massive step back for fire arms safety. People who have issues will no longer go see doc for treatment they will sit on their problem for fear of loosing their FAC. Some one with depression on the right meds is no threat at all but with depresion on no meds because they wont see the doc for fear of loosing their guns is a real issue!!


  8. #8
    In response to your reply above 8x57 I agree totally with you. I had the same form when I got my FAC and telling the fire service you have ammunition or reloading components is rather over the top as the risk small to say the least. Most firefighters would never get to see a fire involving explosives and would only recieve a basic instruction on fighting a fire involving explosives. What should be remembered is powder for example is in real terms a propellent and not an explosive, though if it was used in a crude device such as a pipe bomb then , yes it would be a low powered explosive. Hence powder stored in the amounts we use is just going to burn intensley or fizz and pop.

    Complete bullets arent a hazard either as bullet do not 'fire off' as in the cowboy films. When a bullet is heated the case will expand allowing the hot gases to escape at the neck, if that didnt occurr do to neck tension then if the gases built up the head would depart and tumble, it would not spin or 'fire' as in a rifle.

    I am infact a firefighter , have been for 22 years with both the RAF and now working for an MOD contractor. Much of my training each year is on munitions (just about every type used on aircraft) so I know a wee bit about the subject I can honestly say if we had a fire at work where for example class 1 explosives were burning (thats the stuff in the 500 and 1000lb bombs) I would be worried, but if I went to a fire with powder or bullets , there would be much much less of a risk.

    The risks an FAC holder presents to the fire service is also very very low, its not as if your a firework factory or storage facility for fireworks which of course would be a risk due to the huge amounts of powder and other much more volatile items such as metallic powders. I would say that the camper van parked in your drive is much more of a risk as it has a propane cylinder or one of the biggest risks would be the acetylene cylinder in the garage.

  9. #9
    Couldn’t agree more chickenman regarding the LPG cylinders, lost one guy in our brigade a few years back that way, and a cylinder nearly wiped six of us out one night. It was probably the closest shave I had in 32 years service. I did a short spell in the RAF also, as an armourer so have a little bit of knowledge regarding the bigger stores which came in handy on a couple of stations where I worked. On one station we had an ordnance factory and on another we had a U.S. ordnance depot so small arms ammunition doesn’t worry me too much. What does concern me is my own personal security arrangements which as far as I am concerned starts with only telling those people that really need to know what I have stored in my home so I wouldn’t appreciate the chatty receptionist or cleaner at my doctors surgery discussing this with whoever she happens to be talking to.

  10. #10
    Ahhhh so you were a ''plumber'' in the RAF... you could have remustered to a decent trade , like fire service

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