DSC 1, BASC and the Police

I would like to say I think the DSC1 is a superb way for newcomers to learn a lot about deer. I have learnt SO much from studying for mine and I am probably a good 6 months off applying for it, my love of deer and interest in them as increased with every re-read and mock test.

I would also like to agree that it is very much like a driving test - you get the theoretical knowledge under your belt and then you start learning.

This is why a site like this is SO important - it has already put me in touch with experienced, helpful people that are very keen to share their knowledge and experience with us newbies and help us to do it the right way. I think the police insisting on DSC1 is not the right way to approach things.

The DSC1 is voluntary and was put forward by the DMQ et al as a way for us to show how committed we all are to doing things the "right" way.

I think it's a little unfair to accuse BASC of gross advertising when the DSC1 is available through various other organisations - of course they are going to advertise their course in their own magazine, but anyone with half a brain can do a quick bit of research and find the alternatives if they want to. ;)
 
Its true Mike did his DSC level 1 and learnt allot on the course, he has not done much stalking in the past.

We don’t have to tell you guys that the police in several areas are asking for DSC 1 or other conditions, before grant or variation and not always along the line that the HO guidance intended – i.e. only apply such conditions when the alternative would be a refusal.

Yes we agree unreservedly that DSC1 should be an option, not compulsory.

As you know we and the NGO are working hard on the licensing issue at the moment, not just in terms of fees but also in terms of fair , consistent and efficient application of the firearms act for grants variations and renewals across the UK, something that we don’t have at the moment!

Regards to all
David[/QUOTE

Kent police want meto do DSC to add munty and CWD to my 22/250
 
I think it's a little unfair to accuse BASC of gross advertising when the DSC1 is available through various other organisations - of course they are going to advertise their course in their own magazine, but anyone with half a brain can do a quick bit of research and find the alternatives if they want to

Adjman - re the above - my half brain functions very well thanks - as does the other half :D. If the DSC becomes compulsary what choice does anyone have . they HAVE to do the DSC regardless of who supplies the training - the point I was making and you appear to have missed - please read my first post carefully. Also you might not know but BASC does have a financial interest in the DSC. When you ring the DMQ you somehow get the BASC offices - strange or what ? But as I say thats not my point. THE DSC SHOULD NOT BE A REQUIREMENT FOR FAC OR STALKING -

Andrew
 
Also you might not know but BASC does have a financial interest in the DSC. When you ring the DMQ you somehow get the BASC offices - strange or what ? But as I say thats not my point. THE DSC SHOULD NOT BE A REQUIREMENT FOR FAC OR STALKING -

Quite correct Scrun, it might also be educational if the poster did some research into the origins of the DMQ system and the driving forces behind it. Then look at the make up of DMQ & the DI and the people who are in the driving seat and their previous employment paths. ;)
 
I think it's a little unfair to accuse BASC of gross advertising when the DSC1 is available through various other organisations - of course they are going to advertise their course in their own magazine, but anyone with half a brain can do a quick bit of research and find the alternatives if they want to

Adjman - re the above - my half brain functions very well thanks - as does the other half :D. If the DSC becomes compulsary what choice does anyone have . they HAVE to do the DSC regardless of who supplies the training - the point I was making and you appear to have missed - please read my first post carefully. Also you might not know but BASC does have a financial interest in the DSC. When you ring the DMQ you somehow get the BASC offices - strange or what ? But as I say thats not my point. THE DSC SHOULD NOT BE A REQUIREMENT FOR FAC OR STALKING -

Andrew

Andrew, I can see your point, apologies if my response seemed flippant or mis-informed (I am still a newbie at this). I did know the BASC administer the DMQ and it is noted on the DMQ website
"Administration support for DMQ is provided by the BASC at Marford Mill - see Contact Us . Assessment materials for DSC1 are maintained and supplied by the BDS." but was not aware that they had a vested financial interest in the DMQ as it is supposed to be a not-for-profit organisation. There are other alternatives out there like Jelen for instance.

I do understand that a lot of people don't want to see a compulsory DSC1 to allow a deer condition on FACs, but is it better that someone with no centrefire experience and no knowledge of deer can just go out and start blasting away taking off lower jaws trying to get headshots and causing more suffering than good?

It's a very tricky problem with answers that will never please everyone. I don't agree with the FEO or CC dictating what you must and mustn't have to get a deer condition allowed on your FAC, but I do think that (like the driving test) people should have some basic knowledge of what they are doing before they go out there and start shooting deer.

I have found the DSC1 study guide from the British Deer Society a fascinating and very useful guide, I am hoping that it will prepare me with the basic knowledge I need to be able to start stalking. I am also very aware that it is the START of stalking and that there is a wealth of information to be learnt from there on out.

Should it be compulsory, perhaps not, should it be highly recommended to all considering stalking - I think it should.
 
Kent police "requested" that i do DSC1 before the addition of a .243,despite having .22lr and .22 centrfire on open certificate for 5 years.

I was intending to do the course anyway for knowledge that i felt i needed,but thats not the point,i was made to feel it was a condition...
 
you need to pass a test to drive a car , guns are made for one purpose , to kill things , so why not a test ? That said i think having past your test you should be able to buy any sporting firearm you like , the certificate should be a credit card type thing that just needs the photo up dating every 10 years , i see no point in home visits for renewals after all once you have installed a cabinet just how many times do they want to see it
 
you need to pass a test to drive a car , guns are made for one purpose , to kill things , so why not a test?

Why not indeed? A good question, but there is in law there currently no reason at all, which i think is the point.

It's quite another question as to whether laws requiring a test are desirable, or perhaps more pertinently, neccessary to maintain the safety of the public.
 
Why not indeed? A good question, but there is in law there currently no reason at all, which i think is the point.

It's quite another question as to whether laws requiring a test are desirable, or perhaps more pertinently, neccessary to maintain the safety of the public.
IMO a benefit of membership of a shooting club is that the novice shooter will receive safety instructions regardless of any requirement for "paper" qualifications
 
Would any of us on here want someone to apply for a deer cal with no previous experience of deer or perhaps even shooting centre fires before and get one, no questions asked other than do you have 'good reason'. Then to go out alone in the woods to hunt some deer !
I have no problem at all with training or testing and I think some of the hurdles put in our way does help to keep hunting in this overpopulated country safer than in some other territories we can think of.
Just my opinion
 
Would any of us on here want someone to apply for a deer cal with no previous experience of deer or perhaps even shooting centre fires before and get one, no questions asked other than do you have 'good reason'. Then to go out alone in the woods to hunt some deer !

Well what was the problem in the past? The WSCC, NSCC, Advanced Stalkers Certificate etc. etc. were all good to voluntarily study for and gain as a demonstration of your competence.

I have no problem at all with training or testing and I think some of the hurdles put in our way does help to keep hunting in this overpopulated country safer than in some other territories we can think of.
Just my opinion

Neither do I have any problem with training and testing provided it is either a) voluntary under the present system; or b) properly discussed and formulated and placed into legislation - with trade-offs that would be to the benefit of the shooter such as less or no restriction on a reasonable number of firerams to be held, no restriction on where you could use them, and no restriction, (other than that defined by law Deer Acts etc.), on which quarry they could be used on.

Do you really think that the borderline unlawful 'hurdles' put in the way of law abiding citizens trying to pursue a lawful activity by the authorities makes for a good situation? I think it just builds up resentment and distrust of the police by those they should be serving.
 
Do you really think that the borderline unlawful 'hurdles' put in the way of law abiding citizens trying to pursue a lawful activity by the authorities makes for a good situation? I think it just builds up resentment and distrust of the police by those they should be serving.

Very well said Orion, it does seem they are out to simply antagonise sometimes, whether they mean to or not :-|
 
Would any of us on here want someone to apply for a deer cal with no previous experience of deer or perhaps even shooting centre fires before and get one, no questions asked other than do you have 'good reason'. Then to go out alone in the woods to hunt some deer !
It happens all the time mate , a lad i know was granted a 22-250 and a 308 last year with no previouse experience nd no mentor condition , his father owns a farm and runs a shoot on it maybe this had something to do with it eh ? and he was granted an 8 shot auto on the same application
 
Would any of us on here want someone to apply for a deer cal with no previous experience of deer or perhaps even shooting centre fires before and get one, no questions asked other than do you have 'good reason'. Then to go out alone in the woods to hunt some deer !

yep, that was me.

No rifle experience whatsoever, (lots of shotgunning), got a .243 on first apllication, no mentor or DSC1 required. Went out on my own and shot deer, amazing is'nt it! First deer I ever saw shot and gralloched was the one I did myself! 30 yard Roebuck.

I did have an interest in deer, as I had an interest in most things shooting related, and had a read a book or two before venturing forth on my first stalks.
 
yep, that was me.

No rifle experience whatsoever, (lots of shotgunning), got a .243 on first apllication, no mentor or DSC1 required. Went out on my own and shot deer, amazing is'nt it! First deer I ever saw shot and gralloched was the one I did myself! 30 yard Roebuck.

I did have an interest in deer, as I had an interest in most things shooting related, and had a read a book or two before venturing forth on my first stalks.

I guess there must have been quite a few of us who did it the old skool way before the DMQ 'industry' got going.

How on earth did they cover up all the accidents and injuries that must have happened before people had to be shown one end of a deer rifle from the other?
 
I was old school too. Shot .303's in the army cadets and some handguns in a quarry at Norfolk in the 80's before it got silly - always had an interest in weaopns, but no interest in deer. A mate took me stalking as an observer and I was hooked. Applied for my licence the next week and bought my first rifle within a month. I didnt need "formal" training but learnt by watching - the old "hands on" way which was good enough for hundreds of years for all professions. After serving my "apprenticeship" and when I felt comfortable I went solo and have never looked back.

And adjman - no probs, i wasn't offended, hence the :D. I've been on here long enough to grow a hard skin and also know when someone is really ripping into me :eek:. And yes I agree with you. DSC is a mine of information and i'm glad i did it - even though I was against doing it at first. Though I must admit i've gone back to some of the"ways and means" Acts rather than dealing with things strictly by the book - but at least I know how things should be done and can make an informed decision. Re dsc, have a look at this site. www.dsctraining.org It has all the DSC questions on it and has some very useful piccies and pointers for id'ing deer. I dont have a financial interest in the site, but the guy who runs it was my apprentice master :scared:aka dsctrainer on here, so I figure he must know summat :doh:

Atb

Andrew
 
you need to pass a test to drive a car , guns are made for one purpose , to kill things , so why not a test?

OK why not a test for shooting a fox, we kill them. Or a crow, or a rabbit. You are looking at a firearms test which I would agree with but it is a seperate issue to the DMQ which should be a hunting test but is a fudge.

Level 1 is a good day out, but nothing like hands on experience with a keeper or experienced mentor. You dont need a knife for DMQ level 1 but you will need one in the woods or hill and that is as dangerous as the rifle in the wrong hands. That moves us onto first aid............................
 
And adjman - no probs, i wasn't offended, hence the :D. I've been on here long enough to grow a hard skin and also know when someone is really ripping into me :eek:. And yes I agree with you. DSC is a mine of information and i'm glad i did it - even though I was against doing it at first. Though I must admit i've gone back to some of the"ways and means" Acts rather than dealing with things strictly by the book - but at least I know how things should be done and can make an informed decision. Re dsc, have a look at this site. www.dsctraining.org It has all the DSC questions on it and has some very useful piccies and pointers for id'ing deer. I dont have a financial interest in the site, but the guy who runs it was my apprentice master :scared:aka dsctrainer on here, so I figure he must know summat :doh:

Atb

Andrew

Andrew, Glad I haven't put my foot in it ;) I think the problem really comes down to whether or not some form of testing should be compulsory or not. I can understand and totally sympathise with those that have learned their craft by getting out there and doing it, or passed down from father to son etc - and in my view I would LOVE to learn it that way. There are those of us who (whilst country folk) have not got someone who knows enough to show us the ropes and pass on that wealth of knowledge so need something to "get us started" so to speak, and the DSC1 does just that. I think the big problem is the Police attitude to firearms - if there is some way they can try to put people off, they will use it, regardless of the reasons. If their remit was the management of deer or deer law, then it would be understandable for them to require some demonstration of knowledge, but it is not - their remit is public safety. The DSC1 is a great course and a useful starting point for a lot of stalkers, the trouble is the Police are now aware of it and therefore use it as another obstacle which they have no right to do.

I stand by my concept that the DSC1 is a good thing, but should still be a recommendation for stalkers who are new to the sport, not a compulsory test to gain a firearms certificate.

I have had a look at the dsctraining.org site and it is very good indeed, I am also using the British Deer Society CD-ROM and the Deer Initiative website and reading as much as I can as well.

308boy - you are absolutely right, it is very important to understand that DSC1 is theory, and that is all, there is no substitute for getting out there in the field and discovering how things REALLY work with the help of someone who has been doing it for 30 years ;)
 
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