First time home loading - Sako 85 20" Varmint - What kit and what loading components

A J

Well-Known Member
I know this subject is no doubt asked by every new member to this forum at some point, but I'm looking for some starting advice from someone who may have a similar setup to me and in most of the existing threads I have found, the advice has been very much specific to that persons rifle / requirements.

I'm looking to start home loading for the first time. I currently have a Sako 85 with a 20" Varmint barrel - 11" twist (ASE Ultra stainless mod) in .308 and I don't have any existing loading kit.

I'm generally of the mindset that buying right the first time is better than buying cheap and buying twice, although I don't want to spend more than I really need to. I guess the reloading kit is fairly generic and not specific to my rifle, but any advice on what kit I should start off with would be greatly appreciated.

Do I need a media tumbler or sonic cleaner, or both? Should I get a multi stage press, or is a standard press sufficient with the right additional tools? What additional tools should I get and any recommendations?

I guess where it gets specific is what cartridge components should I start out with.
What loading book?
What bullet type / weight for range use?
What bullet type / weight for stalking? (I currently have some factory Hornady 150gr SST, but not tried them out in the wild yet)
What brass.. Sako, Hornady, Lapua, Fed?
What powder?
What primers?

I intend to load for both stalking and range use and I appreciate that I'll require different bullets for each discipline. The rifle will get more use on the range than for stalking at the moment.

I also intend to load for .223 in the near future and once I know what I'm doing, so kit that will be capable of swapping between the two sizes easily would be beneficial.

Thanks. :thumb:
 
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Read the second and third stickies at the top of this forum.

I have, however neither of them make any mention of what seems to be a good starting benchmark for my rifle. I'm sure I'm not the only user on here reloading for a Sako 85 and I was hoping that someone with a little more wisdom on the subject may be able to share some of their experience.

Considering there are many threads similar to this, but specific to other rifles, I didn't think I was remiss in asking.
 
AJ I have the same rifle as you and there is no difference between it and any other .308. I have found the short barrel has quite a harsh bark but you mention using a moderator anyway so it shouldn't be a problem. There is currently another debate running about reloading for short barreled rifles with some very good advice contained in that thread. With regard to starting out reloading do a search of previous threads because this has been debated numerous times in the past once again with some very good advise given and some interesting opions expressed.
 
AJ my advice for equipment is buy once, Dies = Redding or Forster, Brass = Lapua, Primers = CCI, Powder = Varget, Heads = Sierra, Hornady and Nosler all worked for me.
 
AJ you could not go far wrong in buying the RCBS Rockchucker supreme reloading kit.
http://www.sportsmanguncentre.co.uk...S+Rock+Chucker+Supreme+Master+Reloading+Kit+/

It is not cheap but has everything you need, is of top quality and will last you a lifetime, just add dies and a shellholder together with a digital or vernier calipre to measure cartridge overal lengths and you will be ready to go.

For components, bullet choice will be down to what you want to shoot and what you rifle likes, for brass Lapua and Norma are top quality butare an expensive luxury you dont rerally need unless you want get really anal about your reloads.
Vit 140 and Hodgdon's Varget are very popular powders for the 308, as for primers most reloaders use either CCI or Federal in either standard or Match configuration.

Ian.
 
Many thanks guys. I guess there's no real way around the trial and error stages.

I've settled on Lapua brass, it seems by all accounts to be worth the extra, but still not sure on bullet weight. I'm going to try some Hornady A-Max and Lapua Scenar, but still unsure if I should try 155gr or 168gr bullet heads.

As for reloading hardware, I like the look of the RCBS Rockcucker kit, but also hear good things about the Hornady Lock-N-Load AP progressive which seems quite good a £459? I know I'd still have to add scales, brushes and lube pads etc, but are the progressive presses worth the extra, or are they really a bit overkill?
 
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Dont spend your money on a progressive, learn your art on a single stage press and when you are experienced you will realise why a single stage press is better for premium handlaods.

Ian.
 
I went down the expensive reloading route first time around Redding Comp dies etc etc- and using this is a great "premium brand" kit for the money - http://www.smartreloader.com/redding-big-boss-pro-pak-kit-p-2363.html

But now second time around I have gone for a Lee hand press, ram prime, beam scales etc etc and their delux dies...and can't see measure any difference! Saved a fortune and it takes up a lot less space too!! http://www.henrykrank.com/lee.html http://leeprecision.com/

For lots of info on the cartridge go to - http://www.6mmbr.com/308Win.html

For the bullet weight/twist 150gn's are generally well accepted or check out - http://www.riflebarrels.com/products/caliber_twist_rates.htm

For a whole host of reloading data (although there is no guarantee it will be safe in your rifle) go to the powder manufacturers (Varget is a good choice for 308) website or see - http://reloadersnest.com/frontpage.asp?CaliberID=57

I agree with the components - quality is worth it, and they are what I would buy if going new again. For game/target bullet heads though I would recommend Sierra Gamekings as those you have listed are not really hunting/expanding heads. Primers I would always use either CCI BR's or Fed GM210M's.

Any good branded reloading manual should suffice, just work your loads up carefully looking for pressure signs on the brass. Probably best to get someone to show you first time. Measure, check, adjust and measure again!!

My shopping list recently was:

Lee Breech Lock Hand Press Kit
Lee Deluxe 3-Die Set 308 Winchester
Lee Balance Beam Scales
Lee Case Trimmer Cutter and Lock Stud
Lee Case Length Gage and Shellholder 308 Winchester
Primer Pocket Cleaner
Chamfer and Deburring Tool

Should set you back a quarter of what you have previously been looking at, but if the money is burning a hole in your pocket go to Sinclair International's website and go for a Wilson or Forster arbor press and associated kit.
 
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Dont spend your money on a progressive, learn your art on a single stage press and when you are experienced you will realise why a single stage press is better for premium handlaods.

Ian.

Thanks Ian. After watching a few walkthroughs on YouTube I came to a similar conclusion.

Lots of good info.

Thanks Oly, I'll take a look at the kit you mentioned. Those links look pretty useful too.

I seem to be getting my head around things now.
 
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AJ

I have the same rifle with an ASE Utra SL5 mod on it. I have found mine likes 150grn Sierra Soft Point Gamekings. I have been using Varget powder, Federal brass and CCI primers. My load is irrelevant as it may not suit your rifle but, the accuracy is first class with 1/2'' groups or so achieved @100yds with first load attempt. For stalking purposes I didn't see the point in playing about any further so I just left it at that...

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Should set you back a quarter of what you have previously been looking at, but if the money is burning a hole in your pocket go to Sinclair International's website and go for a Wilson or Forster arbor press and associated kit.

An arbour press with hand dies is not a good set up for a beginner, these are much more specialised tools usually the domain of the advanced handloader, once again do your "apprenticeship" first and learn the craft before looking at these tools.
There is no doubt that Lee equipment loads good consistant and accurate ammo but it is aimed at the budget end of the market and this shows in the quality, finnish and materials used in manufacture.
You will sooner or later have issues with Lee gear and want to upgrade, so do the right thing and buy some quality gear to start with.

Ian.
 
An arbour press with hand dies is not a good set up for a beginner, these are much more specialised tools usually the domain of the advanced handloader, once again do your "apprenticeship" first and learn the craft before looking at these tools.
There is no doubt that Lee equipment loads good consistant and accurate ammo but it is aimed at the budget end of the market and this shows in the quality, finnish and materials used in manufacture.
You will sooner or later have issues with Lee gear and want to upgrade, so do the right thing and buy some quality gear to start with.

Ian.

Just out of interest why would you say that arbor presses are for advanced reloaders? They are easy and simple to use with no more complication than a single stage.

I know what you mean with regard to the "feel" of some of the Lee equipment but when you get using it nothing feels like it would break or wear out, as many many folk will testify. Some old boys have been using the same kit for a lifetime. I must admit that a few years ago when I was new to reloading and bought top end gear I was under the same impression, but the overwhelming numbers of testaments made me try this route and I'm happy so far. Unless you're going into top end competition shooting with proper target rifles/bullets then it's very hard to see with difference using top end reloading equipment on hunting bullets/rifles. Plus, and this is not meant as a gibe at anyone, there does seem to be a lot of gear snobbery in reloading that many new reloaders get easily sucked into at their financial cost. There is some merit in buy once, buy right...but at the end of the day if it really doesn't work out you can sell you Lee gear and get most, if not all (if you buy secondhand) your money back. And this is whether you sell because you don't like the kit, or don't like reloading our simply don't have the time. I lost more money on my Redding gear than I will ever lose on my Lee kit. Reloading isn't for everyone and it does take time, skill, patience (and space in the house/garage, particularly with a heavy bench mounted single/progessive kit) and will probably cost more than buying factory ammo until several thousand rounds have paid for the gear.

As a new person to reloading you can also get a good idea of all the types and manufacturers of reloading kit by looking at user and product reviews on youtube.
 
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Hi AJ, PM sent. CAnt be too far away from you? Happy to walk you through the pricess adn show you my set up. Cheers STEVE
 
Thanks for the Kind offer Steve. I may have to take you up on that at some point. I'll drop you a PM.

I found this 5 part series of clips on YouTube quite informative, although I did notice he didn't bother trimming his resized casings:


I can't watch the videos at the moment, but you don't always need to trim your cases if they are within tolerances.
 
+1 on Lee breechlock challenger kit - will do you nicely to get started. It's what I use and it does absolutely fine. It's what I use for all my ammo loading, and I can get reliable sub-minute ammo using it in my Sako 85 in .308 ;). What struck me when I got the kit was how cheaply made it all looked, but as has been previously stated on here it works. You'll also need a set of dies. I'd also recommend you get a vernier caliper if you haven't one already to measure components and rounds and whatnot. Full kit, all in for probably way less than £150. What's not to like? Got mine from Henry Krank's, who were helpful, quick and efficient.

Remember, on deer, you're aiming at a roughly 6" dia. kill zone (mostly). If your ammo, and you of course, can shoot groups of 1 MOA (minute of angle) or less consistently, then that puts your round somewhere within a 6" circle at up to 300 yards. Because you'll be shooting deer much closer than that, that gives you your margin for error. Pay more if you want to do benchrest shooting where thousands of an inch on the target may make a difference to your score.
 
Just out of interest why would you say that arbor presses are for advanced reloaders? They are easy and simple to use with no more complication than a single stage.

Oly i said "usually" the domain of advanced reloaders, the reasons i think they are not a good set up for a beginner is because, i believe a good understanding of the reloading procedure and the function of various dies should be learnt rather then jumping in at the deep end and getting confused.
Inline bullet seaters, interchangeable bushes, neck tension, neck turning and other peculiararities associated with hand dies and their operation is going to baffle many novice handloaders.
You dont ask a learner driver to take a ferrari round a test track and expect him to set a lap time like Michael Schumacher
You said the you now use Lee gear? i suspect had you not sold your highend reloading equipment you would still be using it and would have saved the money you spent on replacing it with the Lee stuff
:)
Ian.
 
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