Are deer game or vermin?

1white2011

Active Member
I have some land that I could stalk on but currently the owners do not have the game shooting rights! They want me to shoot the deer but we are unclear if I can
All info appreciated
 
This is a legal minefield, ref needing a 'game' licence to shoot deer, but for the purposes of the Game Acts legally they are not game. See here:

sunday shooting - Page 3

BUT, to answer your question, usually where shooting rights are retained e.g. by an estate, deer are included with the game rights. The owner needs to check his paperwork to know for sure. Who does have the game rights?
 
The title is misleading... what he really means is "Are deer included with game shooting rights?". Vermin doesn't really come into it.
 
I would say deer do not come under game shooting rights if the land owner wants you to shoot them then do so if you have the correct guns etc
 
The shooting of deer lies with the 'occupier' of the land, not the owner or landlord. Quite specific in the Deer Act. 'The occupier, their immediate family or someone employed by them'. Some big estates were very pleased when this changed, it stopped some very big compensation claims from tenants, the same claims which are now made where 1000s of pheasants damage arable crops.
 
This is a legal minefield, ref needing a 'game' licence to shoot deer, but for the purposes of the Game Acts legally they are not game. See here:

sunday shooting - Page 3

BUT, to answer your question, usually where shooting rights are retained e.g. by an estate, deer are included with the game rights. The owner needs to check his paperwork to know for sure. Who does have the game rights?

It is a difficult one, the previous land owner kept them but he doesnt shoot it anymore
The new land owner is in process of getting game rights but he says it's going to be a long process,
 
In my (limited) experience, sporting rights (ie, game) and stalking rights (ie, deer) are usually separate.
Therefore, the person who holds the sporting rights is not necessarily the same person who has the right to shoot the deer, but the same person could own both sets of rights.
 
You do not need a game license to shoot deer, since 2007. I also believe that unless deer are specifically included in shooting rites then they are excluded.
 
Do not presume that a tenant farmer has the authority to give you permission to shoot deer as "Vermin". If the stalking rights have been reserved elsewhere eg. by the estate owner, you could find yourself committing armed trespass and have your FAC revoked.I think that it would be wise to consult with all interested parties first. atb Tim
 
The shooting of deer lies with the 'occupier' of the land, not the owner or landlord. Quite specific in the Deer Act. 'The occupier, their immediate family or someone employed by them'. Some big estates were very pleased when this changed, it stopped some very big compensation claims from tenants, the same claims which are now made where 1000s of pheasants damage arable crops.

But what if the owner retained the sporting rights or has let them to someone else? In this case the occupier can only shoot the deer if acting on the owners (or third party's) authority. They do not have the automatic right to take deer simply by being the occupier, at least IMHO.

So the OP really needs to find out who holds the sporting rights and, if separate, who holds the stalking rights. If the owner of the land is new, he may also want to check whether or not the sporting/stalking rights were transferred to the new owner at the time of the sale.

willie_gunn
 
But what if the owner retained the sporting rights or has let them to someone else? In this case the occupier can only shoot the deer if acting on the owners (or third party's) authority. They do not have the automatic right to take deer simply by being the occupier, at least IMHO.

So the OP really needs to find out who holds the sporting rights and, if separate, who holds the stalking rights. If the owner of the land is new, he may also want to check whether or not the sporting/stalking rights were transferred to the new owner at the time of the sale.

willie_gunn

Hi I think Wg has hit it on the head, be very wary.

f,
 
It is a difficult one, the previous land owner kept them but he doesnt shoot it anymore
The new land owner is in process of getting game rights but he says it's going to be a long process,

Assuming that the sporting rights kept by the previous owner included deer, if the new owner doesn't have the legal sporting rights I'm intrigued to know how they can give you lawful authority to shoot deer, since it is not within their power to do so? Were it me, the very fact that the previous owner kept the sporting rights would be ringing alarm bells.

I would urge caution, and I'd strongly suggest you (or the new owner) consult a solicitor to resolve this asap - and no, I'm not a lawyer! If I was the new owner I'd be asking why this didn't come up in the conveyancing.

Deer are not game, but neither are they vermin.

willie_gunn
 
Sporting rights - loosely game birds etc - for enjoyment
Game rights - game birds -not wildfowl or deer (covered under the deer act)
Shooting rights - covers all shooting
Some/most Estates who rent/lease the shooting tend to mention all of the above in their lease to cover all shooting and make it water-tight

Seek the advise of a good fieldsports lawyer before getting into potential hotwater

Deer are always deer - hence the deer act and not vermin
 
Willie, not correct. The occupier of land has every right to control deer or to employ someone to do it for him on land which occupies, it is quite specific in the deer act, ie it is the LAW. Sporting rights are a civil contract between parties with regard to the taking of game, they in no way detract from the occupiers rights under law.ie you cannot make a contract outside the law. I do think that these things are often well sorted over a pint.
JeffreyL
 
Willie, not correct. The occupier of land has every right to control deer or to employ someone to do it for him on land which occupies, it is quite specific in the deer act, ie it is the LAW. Sporting rights are a civil contract between parties with regard to the taking of game, they in no way detract from the occupiers rights under law.ie you cannot make a contract outside the law. I do think that these things are often well sorted over a pint.
JeffreyL

This seems a load of bunkum to me.
I have had the deerstalking rights on a local estate for about 25 years with the present Lord and previously with his deceased father.
The estate is split up with the Home Farm [in hand by the Lord himself] and a few farms let to tenants.
Some of the game shooting rights are let to two syndicates and his Lordship retains part for himself.
Whilst the tenants are the `occupiers` they have NO right whatsoever to interfere with my lease and the deer.
If they have complaints regarding deer damage etc these are directed to me.
When one of the syndicates changed over a few years ago one of the new members tried to muscle in on `my` deer.
I notified the owner and he was soon sorted out.

HWH.
 
Back
Top