Line breeding

nick100

Well-Known Member
Does any one know what the restrictions are on line breeding ?
I have a stud dog I would like to use, but its sire is also my bitches grandsire is this to close under KC regs ?

Thanks

Nick
 
from a working point of view it sound perfect. I bred a line of terriers using half brother/half sister and grand sire to grand daughter type matings. The best lines are tight bred
 
This sounds similar to what I did 15 years ago with a lab bitch of mine. I would think that providing the bitch in the grandparents was an outcross then there should be no issue whatsoever, but some on here will know more about it than me.
 
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Thanks guys, thats exactly what I was thinking, they are a good working line.

I spent 10mins on hold to the KC earlier and got fed up with waiting.
 
nick100, the following has been copied from the Kennel Club's Website An introduction to dog breeding - The Kennel Club and I think this is what you are looking for:-

Kennel Club Registration & Regulations
Before thinking about breeding from your bitch, you should acquaint yourself with the Kennel Club Regulations on registering litters and the registration system in general. The rules and regulations can be found on the litter application form 1, but you will need to remember that the Kennel Club will not accept an application to register a litter when:

  1. The dam has already whelped 4 litters (as of the 1st January 2012 the limit changed from 6 litters to 4 litters). As of this date the Kennel Club will no longer register any further litters from any bitch which our records show has already whelped 4 litters. Therefore for any litter born on or after the 1st January 2012, the system will automatically check to see how many previous litters the Kennel Club has an account of. Where the number previously recorded is 4 or more, the application will be rejected, or
  2. The dam has already reached the age of 8 years at the date of whelping, (relief from this restriction may be considered normally provided an application is made prior to the mating, the proposed dam has previously whelped at least one other registered litter, and the application is supported by veterinary evidence as to the suitability of the bitch involved in the proposed whelping), or
  3. The dam was under one year old at the time of mating, or
  4. The offspring are the result of any mating between father and daughter, mother and son or brother and sister, save in exceptional circumstances or for scientifically proven welfare reasons, or
  5. The dam has already had two litters delivered by caesarean section, save for scientifically proven welfare reasons and this only normally provided the application is made prior to the mating, or
  6. The dam was not resident at a UK address at the date of whelping.
There are further Kennel Club Rules and Regulations that may prevent a litter from being registered; the full Kennel Club Rules and Regulations are contained in the Kennel Club Year Book.
You will also need to ensure that your bitch's Kennel Club registration does not carry a breeding restriction (endorsement). If there are any, you will need to discuss this further with the person from whom you obtained the bitch, as any breeding endorsement will need to be removed before registration of a litter can take place. In most cases it will be the breeder who has placed the endorsement, and who will therefore be the person empowered to remove it.
 
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Thanks Roehunter, that looks like it's acceptable then.

Fingers crossed we can get her in pup, first litter, and she does not come in like any of my others, sometimes its only a few days.
 
Line breeding has its place but beware,if dogs have faults these can shine through as well as the good points of your dogs,sometimes you can get disfigured pups although this can happen in normally bred pups as well
Some of the best lines of dogs come from properly line bred dogs IMO,to a novice it can go very wrong sometimes though,go for it and see what happens but be prepared for good and bad,as in any litter
 
Wot breed are you talking , as some breeds of dogs suffer more from line breeding than others
And as already mentioned genetic defects are stronger pronounced or just defects due to such close matings as you are talking about can occur
The other issue that can arise is if matings are to close potential puppy owners can be put off because of this or if you do get a defective pup or pups then that will be the end of future matings with in those pups and parentage
 
That is the only way to bread terriers lurchers ect I don't no about pedigree dogs but i no there properly bread no peds out there and properly worth more money ie what does a top coarsing dog go for certainly more than any pedigree its the only way to bread but each to there own :british:
 
That breeding will be fine as long that are NO know fault in any of the intended dogs, i have bred my FTCH cocker bitch to her grandshire no problem at all that is FTCH x FTCH.
I hope this helps.
regards
tony
 
Thanks again guys, ESS.

The line I want to keep is very popular here, i was thinking of FTCh sire, but do not want to end up with any thing too hot.
Been there, and not for me on a shoot day. A friend owns the dog so hopefully wont be too pricey for stud fee.

Have line bred over the years, it was more the KC stance, but I welcome everyones views, and as they say you are never too old to learn.
 
This thread is a lovely example of what is wrong with dog breeding. The health problems we have in dogs are caused by the tiny gene pool and by breeding close relatives you are concentrating genetic faults.

Just because you can, and just because the Kennel Club will register the puppies does not make it ok.
 
This thread is a lovely example of what is wrong with dog breeding. The health problems we have in dogs are caused by the tiny gene pool and by breeding close relatives you are concentrating genetic faults.

So, from the description offered in the OP you are saying this breeding is wrong?
 
apache , your half right mate , its that and money . I bumped into a girl whos fella has a terrier of my breeding , its not a year old yet and they want to find a stud dog when i suggested one she says "oh no we dont want any nasty things that go down holes we just want pups to sell" she went on to say they like the look of some russel pet dog . Nothing wrong with that BUT when these pups are for sale they will be from some pet cur dog or my working lines depending on who looks at them . All about the money mate , not about breeding workers
 
Yes. Every single day I see health problems in dogs caused by reckless inbreeding.

Well, the way I read his description of the lines is this.

The grand sire of his intended bitch is 2 generations back to a bitch unconnected to the intended sire for this litter which is why I asked if that bitch was an outcross. That is a fresh gene pool coming in from that bitches side, but please correct me if I am wrong as I genuinely would not want to make a mistake like that myself in future.

According to the kennel clubs guidelines of acceptable breeding this is not even close to being a banned mating.

I don't always agree with their logic but I assume they sought veterinary advice on this one.

I used a similar mating on a bitch of mine. She had 4 pups. Each and every one went on to live until they were 14 or so. The one I kept, because it was a mating for me as I wanted a pup from her, was at the vet twice in her life for health reasons, both times for a bad tooth. Not even for annual boosters as I pick the stuff up and do it myself. Her hip score was 4-3 if memory serves, and a doddle to train to the gun. She was an exceptional dog to work, not just in my opinion but in thatof those that knew her.

The owner of her sire is a well known professional gun dog trainer/breeder and still competes in trials as well as competing for the Scottish team. He has in the past introduced show blood to his bitches to introduce new genes and better looks to his lines as he felt the trialling dogs were going the wrong way for him in their snipey looks. I has never been anything to do with the money for him as quite frankly he does not need it. Although he was careful to use a stud that was a known worker as well.

We discussed the issues of any inherent defects showing up in the mating of my bitch at the time but as neither parents had any physical defects or health problems we were aware if, and the fact that on one side of the grandparents it was a complete outcross, if I am using that term correctly, we went ahead. I also mentioned the intended breeding to one of the vets in my practice who ai shot with and he agreed there was no concerns in his opinion assuming everything we knew about the parents was okay.

I am glad we did and for the 12 years the pup from them worked for me...
 
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