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Thread: FAC query, getting land passed.

  1. #1

    FAC query, getting land passed.

    Hi there, i'm shortly going to be applying for my fac for a stalking rifle (for which I dno't have land but paid stalks will be my justification for now). I do however have a couple of rabbit permissions which I think are probably suitable for rimfire, but they have never been inspected or passed for any calibre.
    Do I have these permissions inspected and passed for whatever calibre, this would then be my justification for including a rimfire on my FAC application?
    Or do i apply for FAC (including the rimfire) and then the land is inspected after my initial application is made?

    Any ideas which way round this normally works?

    Thanks for your help

    PS - I have tried to contact my FLO and he's been promising me a call back for a couple of weeks (not holding my breath at this point).

  2. #2
    Hi Mike

    When I did mine last year for the first time, I applied for a 22LR, 17HMR and a 243. Some of the permission I sent in had already been checked and was only passed for the 22LR. The other 2 pieces of land needed to be checked and came back as being suitable for a 22CF so was advised by my FO to choose a 22CF as well (I went for a 22/250).

    Just send everything in and they will let you know what can be used and where.

    Hope this helps



  3. #3
    I would recommend that you take an incremental approach. Ask an experienced friend to assess your 'rabbit' permissions for safety issues in relation to a .22 rimfire or .17 HMR. Next consult the landowner regarding whether he/she would permit the use of firearms for rabbit control and ideally give such permission in writing or at least be prepared to confirm permission to the feo. Are there deer on the land and if so, do you have permission to shoot them? If the answer to both is affirmative then ask an experienced friend to assess the land for safety in relation to the calibre requested.
    If you have 'bought' stalking, you will be asked for evidence to support that assertion, eg bookings. It is higly unlikely that professionals offering 'bought' stalking would be using land that is other than totally suitable for the calibre.
    Do not make a 'blind' application, based on land that you are uncertain of. All that achieves is to reinforce the inexperience and at worst, poor judgement of the applicant. Such negative inferences are so easily avoidable if you take an incremental approach. Softly softly. Good luck, we were all new to this at one time.

  4. #4
    Excellent advice from Uncle Norm, follow that and you won't go far wrong
    Below is a link to my website.
    Quad sticks

  5. #5
    SD Regular teyhan1's Avatar
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    The thought of having to ask the police for permission to shoot on private land really smacks!!
    There is currently no legislation in force which says the police have to inspect land over which you have gained the shooting rights.
    The police may well insist on you sitting your DSC1 before the grant of a license. This should be enough for them. The police don't ask you where you are going to drive after you've passed your driving test!! And you can kill someone just as easily.
    It is always be the shooters responsibility to ensure a safe shot. We are one of the worlds most regulated firearms countries and have a very well trained, responsible, gun owning citizens with very few incidents every year. I cannot agree with anyone who insists on tiptoe tactics to placate the police. Prove your need with a letter from the landowner, get yourself trained and tell them to give you a license. When they ask to inspect your land, tell them that the landowner doesn't want any body else on his land. If they say that they are refusing your license, tell them that they can't just make up the law. HOME OFFICE GUIDELINES ARE NOT LAW THEY ARE GUIDELINES. If they still insist on not issuing a license then I said I would take them to court and a week later I had my license.

    We have given up too many of our rights concerning gun ownership. I do not want to live in a police state. Resist anything that is not law, because if the police make this procedure the norm then it is only a short step to another loss of freedom.

  6. #6
    teyhan, I'd say go further. There should be no compunction for anyone to hold a DSC certificate before the issue of an FAC. The law doesn't warrant it. If I am deemed safe to possess and use a firearm, then I should have the right to use it without the petty controlling influence of the police. The law says that prior to issue, the COP should satisfy him/her self that I am safe to have the weapon under any circumstance. If that is the case, then I should be trusted to use my own skills to decide if a shot is safe or not.

  7. #7
    SD Regular teyhan1's Avatar
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    Matt, whilst i agree with your comments, I think that training is a necessity.
    I have taken many people out shooting over the years and their experience varied from total novices out for the first time through to experienced hunters. Some of these people have been only interested the 'trophy' with little concern for either shot placement or follow up on a suspected missed shot.
    While I disagree with the police practice of having a mentor, we as hunters must at least insist that some form of training is a must. It is only with training that we learn about reaction to shot, speak to experienced stalkers, learn about the noise a good shot makes, etc etc etc and it also gives the chance to highlight any suspected 'bad-uns'. If we allow untrained individuals to roam the countryside it will undoubtedly lead to maimed animals.
    Our priority must be to ensure the humane treatment of an animal that I personally have huge respect for.
    With any bad publicity will come more ammunition for more regulation. We must not leave it for the authorities to regulate us. They are to easily swayed by political or career led ambitions.

    On a cheerier note I see your in Berks. I stalk a lot around Reading. Nice bucks, all very well fed out of nicely tended gardens. Unfortunately some of my areas now being encroached upon by muderous over culling twats who just see when they see an animal. I ran one farm with around twenty animals. Guaranteed 1x medal per year, often a Gold circa 165 cic pts. **** moved in next door and now not shot an animal in 3 years. I am going to have to write a letter to landowner as I was told not to shoot all them. AAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

    Now I've annoyed myself. TWATS-TWATS-TWATS-TWATS-TWATS-TWATS-TWATS-TWATS-TWATS-TWATS-TWATS-TWATS-TWATS-TWATS-TWATS-TWATS-TWATS-TWATS-TWATS-.................................................. .................

  8. #8
    Teyhan, I agree about training. I was trained by the military, as a cadet, and of course that shapes the way I use and handle firearms. However, there are many and varied ways of acquiring training, it should not be up to the police to make up the law as they go along and try to impose a system which may well not be practicable for some people.

    The firearms act says that, in order to issue an FAC, the chief officer for the relevant area should be satisfied that the person applying can be allowed to have firearms without danger to the public in all instances (I paraphrase, the actual wording in section 27, subsection 1 paragraph C of the firearms act 1968 states
    A firearm certificate shall be granted where the chief officer of police is satisfied that in all the circumstances the applicant can be permitted to have the firearm or ammunition in his possession without danger to the public safety or to the peace.
    . So if he is satisfied with this (and he is as he's issued the ticket, stands to reason, that's what the law says and surely the COP and/or his delegated representatives wouldn't make up the law on the fly would he/they?) then any conditions are completely against the spirit of the licensing system.

    You say we must not leave the authorities to regulate us, which I totally agree with, but then you are arguing to allow un-elected people (the police) to apply arbitrary and unappealable regulations.

    We need to impress on the people tasked with issuing licences that their role is public safety. It is not animal welfare. It is not to impose arbitrary (and changeable) training and mentoring conditions on the legitimate use of firearms.

    As for Berks. I live a bit further west, but work not far from Reading. We mainly see muntjac and roe around our way, but I'm aware of a few big fallow herds and yes, they can get to a fair size!
    Last edited by matt_hooks; 15-03-2012 at 11:39.

  9. #9
    To answer your question - I had a permission in a neighbouring county, fairly small, with public footpath, close to main road, several builds and gas tanks! I made a detailed drawing of my safe arch's of fire and disclosed the fact that I had been shooting sub12lb PCP on that land for several months!

    That force popped out had a look and called me - after seeing for themselves that there was a vermin issue and a need for something that would humanely dispatch rabbits at a longer distance they cleared it for HMR from an elevated position!

    I would take the approach of "don't ask don't get"!

    Agree with previous comments about training

  10. #10
    You can ask for land checks by the FEO prior to making the application but it may take time?
    BASC advise is to apply for a FAC with one piece of land (it reduces the chance of refusal) and then ask for other bits of land to be checked and cleared later.

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