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Thread: How good is your deer dog

  1. #1

    How good is your deer dog

    following on from other thread about trained deer dogs
    it was suggested we should put up a few pics of our dogs in action.....
    Malc went one better and talked about a vid of his dog in action
    so why not
    let's see them
    I will start
    I am using a springer spaniel that has never been trained for deer work
    so it is a challenge to say the least
    the vid will show you all, no editing
    and it is really his first ever track and is approx 350-400 yards/metres
    no tit bits or straight lines, no blood 20 mins old or 6inch apart
    this is a genuine on the ball attempt with 4 hour old blood trail
    It is a springer that is used to working off a lead for pheasants, judge for yourself

    now c'mon
    let's see it
    as this is my dog's first ever attempt taken last weekend
    all comments are appreciated but trying to belittle anothers dog will lead to a bit of friction
    can we please be supportive of those that post a vid looking for advice
    we hav all been there remember
    so let the ball begin

  2. #2
    Hi Stone
    nice idea, put up or shut up comes to mind mate.
    Not sure if you want pictures/ videos of blood tracking or the real thing though.
    I will have to dig the old video camera out and lug it round with me next outing, see if I can get some footage of griff tying me up in knots when on a long leash.
    This might turn into an interesting thead if it isnt taken to seriously.
    I wish I was half the hunter my dog thinks I am

  3. #3
    Hey Sinbad
    Not a put up or shut up thread
    As that would do no good at all
    More a show what you hav got and at what stage
    If you want advice as to where to go then fine
    I hav posted a vid of a dog that is not a Deer dog but shows potential
    I can post a vid of a dog that can a

    But for now
    The springer will do
    Let's not just talk the talk aye

  4. #4
    I will need to source someone with a camcorder
    Good effort Snipe!
    Think this proves that not any dog will actually find lightly wounded deer,training a dog for certain work takes time and knowledge of how to do the job correctly,especially the handler as I said on another thread any dog will follow a blood track(chihuahua),what happens when there is no blood present with an inexperienced dog?Lost deer?
    Thought provoking Stone
    Last edited by Wolverine; 14-05-2012 at 01:22.

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  5. #5
    Likewise, if I can sort out a camera which I am actually looking for just now anyway...

    Pity the idea had not come up earlier when the pup was only 5 months old...


    My observations are as follows, and as a complete amateur with scenthounds except for the 'training' I have been given and 2 months with my dog now.

    Although you have a cracking looking and no doubt very capable gun dog in your springer (love the breed) I can see immediately where the hunting action of the breed could cause problems in covering a lengthy track through heavy cover with a lead attached. The first thing I was taught was how to hold the tracking lead, which must be lightly so it can be slipped when the dog goes through or under cover. If there is any resistance to be felt by the dog, it should be because you are trying to convey a message to him, although that would be very seldom on a track with an HS or BMH. In the video the lead does get tangled up and the dog has to stop until freed. If there is a continual interruption to the dogs track, then how will he know if it is accidental or a signal from you? Perhaps not so much of an issue on grassland or hill ground. Major issue though in some of our forest ground perhaps???

    You can see him wanting to quarter all the time, constantly coming off the track and then picking it up again as he crosses it. If a beast is not bleeding but wounded, and runs off with another alongside it, is it possible for a relatively inexperienced dog hunting in this manner, to therefore move off the desired track and pick up the wrong one by continually quartering on and off the original line?

    Regardless, well done for starting this thread. My pup is still only tracking dragged skin and foot scent, no blood yet. She has had a few good follows on live deer though, including a buck a few nights ago that ran up a hedgerow and then jumped a dyke into a grass bordered, but sown spring barley field. She indicated to me where he had crossed the wall. I took her over and she began to follow a track, but the problem was she wanted to go to the right but I could see a deer out away in the distance straight ahead, feeding. I allowed her to go her way until I eventually lifted her off. I went back along the edge of the field and could find no slot marks suggesting the buck had gone across the sown field. I also doubted the deer I could see would be feeding after being bumped by me only 400yds away. I did not like following a track on a live deer I had not seen being made. Then lesson number two I was taught comes flooding back....... Always trust the dog!!!!!

    Good luck with him Stone and look forward to seeing other videos.
    Last edited by jamross65; 14-05-2012 at 06:49.

  6. #6
    Nice to read this Brian . I did yesterday a test in Bruly de Pesche near the France boarder with my BMH . A trail over 18 hours old , two marking places , a few drops off blood and shoes over 1600 m. Started in a open wood , went down in a valley , had to go up again , crossed two time a small river up again found the marking places and went down again in the valley to cross again the river and found the roe . Conditions , very dry , warm weather , no wind . Did the hole trail in 18 minutes .
    Like you said , trust the dog .Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	15495 The obesvers with my Gena

  7. #7
    Hi Stone.
    The comments on griff tying me up in knots was not intended as a slight at you! he is hard work to keep on a leash in the kind of cover you were working snipe in.
    He will be 2yrs old this month, and has just done his first season on pheasant (did well). And since Febuary I have been able to concentrate on deer only and this has made a massive difference.
    I take him stalking with me when in heavy cover/ woodland and he will sit quietly under a highseat for hours.
    I work him into any deer shot and I am finding it better to let him work the scent off the lead and let him go 20/30ft in front of me,
    He has found a fallow and a roe that ran after being shot, (both in heavy cover) the fallow had to be pulled down which he did without any hesitation.
    I am sure there are a lot of things I am doing that maybe could be improved so with that in mind, I will be trying to put a video together showing my part trained GWP and welcome any constuctive advise that is offered.
    I would point out that taking a dog with you stalking is more a conditioning thing than training, but would not advise it until a dog is 100% steady.
    All the best with Snipe
    Look forward to meeting up next time Im down your way.
    I wish I was half the hunter my dog thinks I am

  8. #8
    Sinbad,this is not a dig at anyone so please don't take it as such.
    You're GWP if not worked on a leash will be a trailing and air scenting dog not a tracking dog,now in certain circumstances this is no problem as he will find the dead deer or a wounded one but by keeping on a leash on track he will get his nose on the deck and be a much more reliable TRACKING dog.
    What do you do if he chases a wounded one out of site of yourself or worse a live untouched deer?
    How does he report back to you?
    Keeping you're dog on the leash,you have control of the dog and only release him when the beast is definitely not going far or you get the chance to shoot again.
    Tracking dogs will if trained properly will follow the soil disturbance of the cleaves of the deer reacting with the soil,giving chemicals off,NH4 and vegetative decay,its this that a true tracking dog will follow,blood,guts,bone and hair is a bonus to them,again I ask the question what do people do when there is no blood present with an inexperienced dog?
    In the UK we rely upon the dog building up experience with numbers of deer shot over it,this is not the correct way to train a tracking dog,we need to train to continental standards so the dog is fully prepared for every eventuality in the field,training a certain way alleviates the need for experience to be built up as the dog has came across the situation already in it's training,therefore his confidence is higher as is that of the handler as he knows what his dog is capable of.
    As Jamross states holding the leash a certain way communicates things to the dog and its not just the dog doing the work but you are part of a team,helping the dog along the way where you can,inevitably the dog will help you more and will learn you more as well,always trust the dog afterall their nose is somewhat more refined than ours

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  9. #9
    I wish I had been able to film an incident with my pup yesterday.

    I went for a walk on my ground to see what was going about. I took the HS pup with me for the company more than anything. She is only 6 1/2 months old and is beginning to walk quit well to heel off the lead. She is also good at stopping when I stop and will sit with a raise of the hand and remain there until I walk on and gently pat my leg indicating to her to follow. I have also done a fair bit of her sitting and me walking away (not out of sight yeat though), to which she is very steady. That is how I trained my GWP. However, that is where the similarities of their training finish!

    I had only left the car about 80yds away when I bumped a group of 25 hinds and last years calves. Among that group was one of this years young, the first I have seen this year. They ran across the road and into the trees to my left. The pup stood still and watched them. When I thought they had gone I took a few steps forward to be met with the tiny calf belting out the trees and running straight at me, obviously looking for mum! 15ft from me it turned into the trees.

    For fear of the pup instinctively chasing I raised my voice (I got a fright as well as I was totally unprepared for that) and told her to stay. She did take a step forward to be met with a loud NO! She stopped and looked at me. Now if that had been the GWP with deer that close, it would have been 50/50 as to whether I would have been chasing her or patting her head. After all she has been allowed to hunt/chase off the lead for 8 years.

    The point I am making is that now I know better from the 'training' I have received, books I have read and DVD's I have been shown, that the chasing of deer off the lead should only be done under certain circumstances. The dogs have to be trained to be steady until they are allowed to chase off the lead. And only then it will be on a beast known to be in a particular locality and likely to be suffering from a particular wound, which is realised because the handler is also trained.

    Likewise Sinbad, this is not a criticism. I also hunted my GWP the way you do yours. But I now know it is not the correct way IMO. Each to their own though...

    Hopefully with some of the footage that will appear on here it will be seen how they can track if trained to do it. I don't mean my dog in particular, but I hope Rudi manages to get the clip of the dog tracking the stag we saw a couple of weeks ago on here to see how it should be done. Best example yet...

    Edited to add that after that incident she was back on the lead until I knew we had pushed all the deer away. Saw about another 50 or so and she was interested but not unsteady. Very pleased with her.
    Last edited by jamross65; 14-05-2012 at 09:39.

  10. #10
    Ria 7 months old and sorry for posting again and i will get some new ones were she is on a leash and tracking in a proper manner but she is a ground senter and would not matter if she is on a leash or not.

    Showing the differnt type of work but both do find deer very well
    My now old dog buck at the tender age of 18 months finding a deer

    Last edited by 6pointer; 14-05-2012 at 13:39.

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