F-Class rules???

Brithunter

Well-Known Member
Having just noticed an ad in the classifieds for an f-Class stock I decided to have a look and see what is so special about them and then the confusion set in.

Looking on the NRA page it tells us that calibres up to 8mm are allowed. Then onto F-Call UK's web site and it says 308win/7.52x51 or .223 Rem/5.56mm ..................................... Hmmmmm


The NRA's site says this:-

F ('Farquarson') Class evolved from Target Rifle (TR) shooting in the mid 1990s. Whereas the usual calibre for TR is 7.62mm, F Class may be fired in any calibre up to 8mm. This new variant of TR was introduced in 1997 and allows other calibres and also bipods, telescopic sights etc. This class was originally intended to allow TR shooters with eyesight or other physical problems to carry on in the sport by allowing greater freedom in optical sights, rifle rests etc. It has now, however, developed into a new discipline in its own right.

So who is actually running this show? and who is right?

I know a few on the SD forums shoot in F-Class so hopefully they can enlighten me.

Edit:-

Ahhh I see that despite it's name the F-Class web site is in FACT for F/TR hence the cartridge restrictions. Pity they are once again overloading the poor old 7.62x51 case yet agin.. After the target boys have gotten the converted No4 Ebfields banned in some countries due to their over loading the cartridges to way over the pressure limits it seems theya re doing the same here.:-

[h=3]NEW 308 BRASS FROM LAPUA[/h]Lapua are about to launch a new 308 cartridge case with a small primer pocket! Reason - it could be more accurate - especially at long range and, with more 'meat' in the case-head, it might stand the pressure better. Yes, some of us played with the Remington small primer cases 15 years ago but the brass just wasn't up to standard. Can't wait to get my hands on some!

You would also think by now they would know that the 7.62x51 and .308 win are not quite the same in certain important specs :rolleyes:. But not it seems. Instead of working with in the design and pressure limits nope we have special cases made so we can continue to abuse them............... :banghead:.
 
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F-Class has two competitive classes.

F/TR which is .308 and .223 only, with a bipod and rear bag allowed.

F Open which is any caliber up to 8mm, use of front rest and rear bag allowed, in reality you need to be shooting a 7mm of some description to be competitive.
 
Kevin,
Redmist would be an expert at answering this.
My understanding: F-open class up to 8mm with a max rifle weight of well over 20lb
then there is F/TR with only 223 and 308win/ 7.62x51 allowed. Max rifle weight ~ 18lb and bipod must
be attached.

(by the way I would need to organise some 1" mounts for that old 303)

edi
oops, bit slow
 
Having just noticed an ad in the classifieds for an f-Class stock I decided to have a look and see what is so special about them and then the confusion set in.

Looking on the NRA page it tells us that calibres up to 8mm are allowed. Then onto F-Call UK's web site and it says 308win/7.52x51 or .223 Rem/5.56mm ..................................... Hmmmmm


The NRA's site says this:-



So who is actually running this show? and who is right?

I know a few on the SD forums shoot in F-Class so hopefully they can enlighten me.

Edit:-

Ahhh I see that despite it's name the F-Class web site is in FACT for F/TR hence the cartridge restrictions. Pity they are once again overloading the poor old 7.62x51 case yet agin.. After the target boys have gotten the converted No4 Ebfields banned in some countries due to their over loading the cartridges to way over the pressure limits it seems theya re doing the same here.:-



You would also think by now they would know that the 7.62x51 and .308 win are not quite the same in certain important specs :rolleyes:. But not it seems. Instead of working with in the design and pressure limits nope we have special cases made so we can continue to abuse them............... :banghead:.

I think it's safe to say the guys know what ther're doing!
 
I think it's safe to say the guys know what ther're doing!

Really :scared: Hmmmm let's see we take a high pressure cartridge and keep adding more powder so the the pressure is so over the top it expands primer pockets just so they can keep bullets super sonic at extended ranges. Sure I believe you :-|.

It's one thing to increase pressures in suitable modern rifles with old low pressure cartridges like 30-30, 45-70 and even 303 British but another entirely when already high pressure cartridges are the case. Tis only a matter of time before mishaps happen and then how long before the powers that be ban hand loading altogether as being unsafe?
 
No handloading= no F- class. And in the wider context, CCI doesn't seem to be doing such a great job with factory loading the .17 HMR.

Keep in mind that most guys have 30" tubes on their F/TR rifles, and long throated chambers. Makes keeping that pill on the right side of the sound barrier a bit easier.
 
No handloading= no F- class. And in the wider context, CCI doesn't seem to be doing such a great job with factory loading the .17 HMR.

Keep in mind that most guys have 30" tubes on their F/TR rifles, and long throated chambers. Makes keeping that pill on the right side of the sound barrier a bit easier.

Ahhh what happened to having the bullet close to the lands for good grouping?

Sorry could not resist that one :stir: as I am not a follower of that particular idea having found most of my own rifles shoot best with quite a bit of bullet jump.

An interesting point is the barrel length as there are those who tell us that the powder is all burnt in the first few inches of bore so in fact over a certain length, which they cannot seem to agree upon :rolleyes:, the bullet stops accelerating and actually begins to slow due to friction. Of course it's well documented that cartridges like the 25-06 and 270 win do better with barrels of 24"+. The 7.62x51 or .308 Win case with it's shorter column of powder should in theory at least require less barrel length.

Now I am nor sure how much elevation the Tasco #707 scope has but it is a target/varmint scope and I would love to try it on the P-H 1200TX which has the forward mount on the barrel for such a scope. Perhaps one day it will be possible to try it. We can but hope:-

P4060156.jpg


This fitted to this should prove interesting.

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I was told it likes the Sierra 155 Grn Palma Bullet. Barrel is 26" on this one or so the catalogue says. Would have to check the twist as P-H offered two I understand. This 1200TX is a single shot version. I wonder how t would do with the 168 Grn match bullet. One day perhaps we can find out.

As for CCI and the .17 rimfires ........................................................... well all I can say is that I did briefly consider one many years back but after sitting down and thinking of what I would use it for could not come up with a valid good reason to have one. I could down load the .222 Rem cheaper.
 
Really :scared: Hmmmm let's see we take a high pressure cartridge and keep adding more powder so the the pressure is so over the top it expands primer pockets just so they can keep bullets super sonic at extended ranges. Sure I believe you :-|.

It's one thing to increase pressures in suitable modern rifles with old low pressure cartridges like 30-30, 45-70 and even 303 British but another entirely when already high pressure cartridges are the case. Tis only a matter of time before mishaps happen and then how long before the powers that be ban hand loading altogether as being unsafe?

Have you actually seen open class f-class rifles? The barrels and breeches are quite often like howitzers. The yanks have been pushing the load limits for years and years with no string of maiming or injury!
 
Brithunter,
The new Lapua brass was developed because of requests from the US Palma team, hence the name "Palma brass"
It is believed that the smaller primer pocket equipped cases will help decrease extreme spreads a killer of long range accuracy.
The case was not designed to give handloader a stronger case so that they can up the pressures, under Palma rules there are no restrictions on bullet weight but the favourite seems to be the 155grn range, which will easily stay supersonuc at 1000yds loaded at normal 308 pressures.
TR in this country uses issued ammo hence no handloading so Match rifle is traditionally where the handloaders try to stretch the limits of ther 308 in order to reach out to 1200yds
In FTR there is no need to push the limits of the 308 like the match rifle shooters do, so i think you are worrying about nothing.

Ian.

PS. Great Rifle and Lovely scope by the way.
 
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Kevin, Your rifle is way too much sniper/military/cammo/short barrel fad :D

This is what a F-Class looks like:cool:
edi


purpleetac.jpg
 
f-open is rifles up to 10kg .caliber up to 8mm and range limit speed to 3250 fps any 7mm is competitive ,30-32 inch barrels is the norm for max speed from your cartridge ,and long throats to get more case space ,as for max pressure i get 15 reloads from my 284 shehane brass so i aint pushing it to the max so its safe
284 and 7wsm of some description are the top cartridges in f-open at the min
 
Sniper?

Cammo?

Where?

The 1200TX is a target rifle aimed at the Imperial and Queens comp, Palma type matches. The previous owner had a scope on it at some point the scope was not offered in the deal. He was an ex RAF armourer and CCF instructor as well as being on the M84 cadet Rifle testing board. I had been looking for a suitable target scope since acquiring the rifle. really wanted a Parker-Hale target spot or Unertl, Fecker, Lichshert, Lyman or Redfield but they seem to go for more than I can afford so when I saw this Tasco #707 I bid on it and won much to my surprise.

BTW I also own a Sportco Model 44 single shot target rifle also chambered in 7.62x51 for the same comps. Had that one a few years now and it's a fairly early one and still has it's original bolt head retaining pin. That has a rounded fores tock which is more narrow and also has the upper hand guard still. Later ones did nt have the top wood it seems.


Hmm Ed looks like something has been nibbling chunks out of the butt on that one. reminds me a bit of Big John's Grunig which he used in the Imperial meetings. I shot it a few times and didn't get on witht eh stock very well. But it was set up for Big john and well he is a lot bigger than me soooooooooooooooooooooo? :-|.

Whitebeard thank you for the compliment. I like it too. Not sure about the scope yet as I have not used it of course. As for pushing the pressure limits well this is off thie web site:-

NEW 308 BRASS FROM LAPUA

Lapua are about to launch a new 308 cartridge case with a small primer pocket! Reason - it
could be more accurate - especially at long range and, with more 'meat' in the case-head,
it might stand the pressure better. Yes, some of us played with the Remington
small primer cases 15 years ago but the brass just wasn't up to standard.

Can't wait to get my hands on some!

It might stand up to the pressure better ................................... :-| Hmmmmm sounds like someone is pushing the pressure envalope does it not?
 
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I do think you are worrying about nothing. Brass failures and blown primers will occur a long time before a breech explosion.
 
I take it you have witnessed or experienced a severe case failure?

I was unlucky enough to buy some PMC cartridges in 6.5x55 which were over loaded at the factory and as a result the primer pocket blew out. Luckily I was shooting a Swedish Mauser. The blast broke the firing pin in two sending the the rear of the bolt into my specs denting the metal frame of them. My specs saved my eyes from injury. Becuase of the gas venting Paul Mauser designed into his rifles the action was not damaged. This was just a blown primer pocket and not a full on case rupture. Thank you I don't want to be anywhere near one of those.

I have seen the aftermath and it ain't pretty. Funnily enough that was a serious target shooter responsible for that one. A member of one of the top university teams. We arrived after the incident and the injured, innocent party had been taken to hospital, luckily it was winter so his heavy clothing protected him somewhat. It was reported later than in the ambulance the shooter just kept saying Not again .................... not again. turned out this was the third gun he had blown up! Part of the breech blew sideways and embedded itself in the shooters chest who was shooting a couple of lanes away. Good job he was not closer.
 
I take it you have witnessed or experienced a severe case failure?

I was unlucky enough to buy some PMC cartridges in 6.5x55 which were over loaded at the factory and as a result the primer pocket blew out. Luckily I was shooting a Swedish Mauser. The blast broke the firing pin in two sending the the rear of the bolt into my specs denting the metal frame of them. My specs saved my eyes from injury. Becuase of the gas venting Paul Mauser designed into his rifles the action was not damaged. This was just a blown primer pocket and not a full on case rupture. Thank you I don't want to be anywhere near one of those.

I have seen the aftermath and it ain't pretty. Funnily enough that was a serious target shooter responsible for that one. A member of one of the top university teams. We arrived after the incident and the injured, innocent party had been taken to hospital, luckily it was winter so his heavy clothing protected him somewhat. It was reported later than in the ambulance the shooter just kept saying Not again .................... not again. turned out this was the third gun he had blown up! Part of the breech blew sideways and embedded itself in the shooters chest who was shooting a couple of lanes away. Good job he was not closer.

How was a shooter responsible for factory ammo?
 
I was the shooter with the bad factory ammo. My fault as i should not have brought it. I have never brought an PMC ammunition since.

The other incidents I believe were with re-loads although neither shooter was admitting to having done anything wrong. You would think after blowing up two guns one would take more care but it seems not. The incident at Reepham Moor the shooter wanted the action as a reminder of how lucky he was not to be badly injured however the Police insist it has to be deactivated :rolleyes: exactly how one is supposed to that to HO Guidelines when the action is split wide open in a vee shape with the receiver ring is two or more pieces is beyond me. last I heard it was an the RFD's books asa an action due to the police refusing to allow it to be removed.

If and when I buy factory ammunition I tend to stick with very mainstream makers now the last factory brought was Federal Fusion and Remington Express Core Lockt.
 
I was the shooter with the bad factory ammo. My fault as i should not have brought it. I have never brought an PMC ammunition since.

The other incidents I believe were with re-loads although neither shooter was admitting to having done anything wrong. You would think after blowing up two guns one would take more care but it seems not. The incident at Reepham Moor the shooter wanted the action as a reminder of how lucky he was not to be badly injured however the Police insist it has to be deactivated :rolleyes: exactly how one is supposed to that to HO Guidelines when the action is split wide open in a vee shape with the receiver ring is two or more pieces is beyond me. last I heard it was an the RFD's books asa an action due to the police refusing to allow it to be removed.

If and when I buy factory ammunition I tend to stick with very mainstream makers now the last factory brought was Federal Fusion and Remington Express Core Lockt.

And so you sued them right?
 
And so you sued them right?

No a claim was made against the importers, however Fultons who inspected and repaired the rifle, new firing pin fitted, did not help at all. The told me one thing and the importers another story entirely :-|. I got told after the repair and test firing all was well however they told the importers the rifle had excessive head space.

The rifle in question is this one:-

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It's a sporterised Swedish Mauser the action was made around 1905 at the Gustav plant, this is given by the KB inspectors initials as it seem he was only there for 3 years.

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I had Norman Clark replaced the military bolt handle some years back.

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The rifle was commercially sporterised with the bolt just bent down and a new surplus Swedish barrel fitted. Notice the different font on the serial numbers on barrel and action. Certain parts of the bolt were changed and stamped to match the original number again the different font gives this away so it was re-built to as new specs.

When I brought it only had being proof fired. The head space is set to Swedish Military specs I understand which like the ones for 303 British are not the same as SAAMI specs. Fultons used SAAMI gauges I believe. The proof house made no remarks about excessive head space and as I understand the rules of proof if it had excessive head space proof would have been refused.

Although I used Fultons quite a bit back then obviously my custom was not as important to them as the trade with the importer as a couple of years later I discovered just how poorly they had done the work.

After a particularly wet stalking outing using the Mauser on returning home I stripped the rifle including the bolt to dry and re-oil. It was then I discovered how instead of fitting the firing pin nut to the new pin they had simply used a wrench to force it on. I spent about half an hour with some Swiss files fitting it properly. I wonder if it was a Swedish pin the sourced and put into my rifle. Once fitted the firing pin nut turns into place as it should. I did speak to Fultons by of course they couldn't even remember the repair as it had been a couple of years previously and it seems I should not have rectified their error just taken it back and let them see it and decide whether it required fixing or not.

I took the attitude that as obviously my custom was not important enough to them to do a proper job even though in this case i was not paying the bill the Importers refunded me, but that's another story, I would take my custom elsewhere which I have done ever since. before this I had quite a bit of work done there. They even replaced the new beech stock on a re-built No4T I acquired with proper period Walnut and bedded it as it should have been done. That was not exactly a cheap enterprise. So now when at Bisley say for a show I will pop in to see who is about and see what they have on display. Often bump into old shooting companions there or others I know but unless something really outstanding is there my money stays in my pocket.

Oh yes the Importer offered 200 rounds on ammunition as a good will gesture. Some time later I also acquired this commercial Mauser M1996 Slide Bolt:-

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Also in 6.5x55. I did not have to keep cases segregated for hand loading which I would have done if indeed the swede had excessive head space as the shoulder would have been blown forwards to fill the void. The only time I need to keep cases separate was after I acquired a set of Lee Collet dies in 6.5x55 which of course only neck size. Although I don't recall if I ever tried neck sizing a case form one rifle the trying to chamber it in the other :confused: perhaps I did and have forgotten of I just kept some different head stamp cases. As I sold the Slide Bolt to make room for another rifle for the collection some years back I simply do not remember now. Unlike the blown case incident it was not important enough to remember.
 
So, are you gonna shoot that rig, or just talk about it? :D

Who?

Which rig?

Well right now if you meant me I would love to but there is the unresolved problem still hanging over us. I would dearly love to get the Tasco mounted on the P-H 1200TX and see how it performs. I had even been researching scope mounts for the old Sportco Model 44.
 
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