Bargain of the millenium

User00004

Well-Known Member
Just looking through the Bush Wear catalogue.

I must say £124.99 for Scent Shoes :eek:

I wish I had designed them and then patented them.....

Surely a broom stick with string hanging from it, then the hoofs tied to it is a better idea, for one, the dog will not be following your scent.

I certinally wouldn't be parting with the money, even if I had it.

TJ
 
Ok guys, they are expensive but some are available for around £60

Look at it this way. Some folk including me, think they are necessary to properly train a deer dog to be able to follow a track over a kilometre. They will be used almost weekly and for several dogs over years.

A dummy launcher and half a dozen canvas dummies which I own would now cost more than the scent shoes. My dummies have been used for several gundogs in their training. Well worth the investment over 20 years ago.

So, what's the difference, both tools used for different disciplines?

TJ, the reason that the feet hung from string would not work eventually, is because on a track 2 or 3 days old they're has to be weight to the footprint so that the bacterial reaction caused by the degradation of soil and plant matter occurs. You would not get that by simply dragging a foot or piece of skin across the grass or other vegetation. Yes, a scent would be left but it would not last as long or replicate the scent caused by a deer walking across ground.

the continentals have been using scent shoes for decades in an effort to replicate the track and scent left by game animals. I would have agreed with you, before I read up on training a scenthound and being taught by those who use them... ;)
 
JR

Pardon my ignorance but how do you know the dog doesn't just follow the scent from the shoe itself i.e. the crushed vegetation? Has this factor been scientifically eliminated?

Frank
 
JR

Pardon my ignorance but how do you know the dog doesn't just follow the scent from the shoe itself i.e. the crushed vegetation? Has this factor been scientifically eliminated?

Frank

Frank

I do not profess to be an expert, far from it. I will try and condense an answer from looking back through Syrotuck's book, Scent and the Scenting Dog.

I also popped on a post recently written by John Jeanneney, about tracking without blood. It touches on how the dog locks on to the scent of the deer foot and will ignore other tracks laid by the owner walking deliberately across the already laid track, thereby leaving a tempting fresher one of the dogs owners scent. The dog will still continue on the original track that has the cleave scent on it. At least a trained dog will!
 
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Spot on Jamross.A dog will use a combination of scent to track.
Vegetative degradation giving differing amounts of ammonia off
Cleave scent reacting with the soil and bacteria multiplying and giving of differing scents
If blood present again degradation and bacteria present being tracked
Rafts present are also subject to all of the above
A trained tracking dog will manage to single out one or all of the above or a combination of all of the above.
Then factor in different scenting conditions and different terrain and different times of the day as well.
It takes a while to train a tracking dog through all these eventualities
PS Frank ask how police dogs follow criminals in town/on concrete,where is the vegetation?
Scent hounds can track on bare soil and solid rock
 
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Pardon my ignorance but how do you know the dog doesn't just follow the scent from the shoe itself i.e. the crushed vegetation? Has this factor been scientifically eliminated?

But it does also follow the scent from the crushed vegetation - it's a component part of what makes up the 'complete' scent picture - and even deer passing through the same environment will crush vegetation, so no need to eliminate it. The studies used in the Syrotuck book show that scent from the vegetative matter will peak and degrade on a later timescale than the biological markers from the passing subject, so on colder trails it might actually make up the greater part of what the dog is picking up on.
 
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i wanted to check im not breaking any copyright before letting mine go out thats why i havnt put mine on here till i can be shure everything is ok but costs will be alot less than those and all are laser profiled but will get sorted very soon,atb wayne
 
i wanted to check im not breaking any copyright before letting mine go out thats why i havnt put mine on here till i can be shure everything is ok but costs will be alot less than those and all are laser profiled but will get sorted very soon,atb wayne
Naughty,
Let someone else do the intellectual work and then pinch it for your own gain, is that what is being contemplated.
I have spent 43 years of my life in automobile engineering and it is a minefield to try this.
To me it"s ok to see an idea and make yourself one but to nick an idea is just too chinese for me, if it was DVDs you would be going to jail or paying a big fine, they may well also be an EU wide registered design so I would suggest carefully checking the legal side of it out before jumping in just for a quick buck.
They were invented in Poland about 25 years ago according to my pal who has them made and sells them in Germany as BodoBande which are the ones shown in the first post link but they were 99 euros last time I sold them at the Dortmund show, so yet again typical England = just add 40% and sell them on.
The full shoe has no effect it is just a requirement of the German tracking examiners board, you only need the rear set to do all the training needed.
Martin
 
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you can protect a trademark, copyright, design, etc. but you cannot protect a 'concept', so as long as your design is different then there's nothing wrong with putting out your own type.

after all, there are many manufactureres of vehicles, bikes, rifles, dildo's, whatever,,the point is, as long as the design is not identical and there are differences in construction/function/etc. you will probably not be breaking any IP laws.

There's an IP healthcheck - http://www.ipo.gov.uk/whyuse/business/iphealthcheck.htm you can also email them your idea/design and attach a link to any existing products in the market, and one of their advisers will email you back and tell you if you need to seek further legal advice, how you can protect 'your' product, or if you're clearly in breach.

it's a good service, and it gets you on the road to production without having to spend thousands on IP lawyers.
 
Naughty,
Let someone else do the intellectual work and then pinch it for your own gain, is that what is being contemplated.
I have spent 43 years of my life in automobile engineering and it is a minefield to try this.
To me it"s ok to see an idea and make yourself one but to nick an idea is just too chinese for me, if it was DVDs you would be going to jail or paying a big fine, they may well also be an EU wide registered design so I would suggest carefully checking the legal side of it out before jumping in just for a quick buck.
They were invented in Poland about 25 years ago according to my pal who has them made and sells them in Germany as BodoBande which are the ones shown in the first post link but they were 99 euros last time I sold them at the Dortmund show, so yet again typical England = just add 40% and sell them on.
The full shoe has no effect it is just a requirement of the German tracking examiners board, you only need the rear set to do all the training needed.
Martin
actually no that wasnt what i was doing at all i have done my own shoe but being that you cant do alot to change the fact it is going to be similar.
i am a prototype engineer and have to manufacture lifts and such on a daily basis. my highseats and gun cabinets are all my own work designed and built by me and if you look they are totally different to whats on the market already. i didnt want to put the shoes on until i am clear i havnt breeched or come close to someone elses plans which in the case of my highseats they are so different it cannot be seen to have pinched the idea and i am the only one making seats that way. the shoes there is only a few on the market and they all look similar,atb wayne
i would also like to say that im fed up of getting my leg lifted by companys the price of goods is stupid people just hike up prices for there own gain i make and sell my gear with the best quality steel and still can keep my costs down for people without asking too much
 
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Wolverine

Re police dogs and tracking across concrete; I would imagine that this is quite hard as the scent given off must be less. The dog is tracking some disturbance but not as much as given off on vegetation.

Frank
 
Wolverine

Re police dogs and tracking across concrete; I would imagine that this is quite hard as the scent given off must be less. The dog is tracking some disturbance but not as much as given off on vegetation.

Frank
As Orion states vegetative decay is trackable for a long time,as he says as well it's the whole picture a dog will take into account not just one type of scent.A dog will still find on granite with no vegetation present.
My point as in the first post on this thread is that the dog will look at the whole scenting picture and the more experienced the dog the better it'll be at this,the bacterial multiplication is as important,this is why blood is a bonus.
The dog will follow the disturbance on the soil,concrete,grass,heather and a variety of other surfaces,as I said factor in environmental and topographic conditions as well,so it's not just vegetation and it's decay and the chemicals given off that matters
 
Wolverine

Re police dogs and tracking across concrete; I would imagine that this is quite hard as the scent given off must be less. The dog is tracking some disturbance but not as much as given off on vegetation.

Frank

Frank, it is not really hard for a police dog to track across concrete as the dog will be required to do this almost always immediately after it has been laid and at the most within a short period of time, generally under an hour or so. Unless the wind is blowing strongly there will be a mixture of scent rafts and a scent left on the concrete itself. Obviously the dog will not have the benefit of soil and plant matter degradation building up a stronger scent, but as the track is done so soon after being made dog should cope with what is available.
 
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