243 fox

bongo

Well-Known Member
Ive just spoken to my feo about getting a 243 for fox , but he says i wont get a 243 for fox only for deer , and only then after x amount of stalks , dsc1 etc etc . So i then asked about another 223 but a dedicated nv set-up , but he says i wont get 2 fox rifles . He's says i can apply but thats what will happen , is this the same everywhere ???
 
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I was granted a .243 for fox as my first centrefire, no deer until I have done a couple of paid stalks with estate rifle. I'm with West yorks and they said better to have 1 rifle for fox and deer then 2 centre fires.
 
In a word, no.

I've got my 243 variation back with "vermin and ground game/fox/deer" on it. I would contact firearms to see if the FEO is correct.

Paul
 
I think you can have a .243 for deer only or deer and fox, but, generally, not fox only.

I will now get some people saying they have a .243, .50BMG etc for fox only. Please can you include the date of grant so we can separate current from historic practice.
 
He was making out as this is a new thing , and most fac's comeing up for renewal with FOX only may have problems getting a renewal .
 
I think you can have a .243 for deer only or deer and fox, but, generally, not fox only.

I will now get some people saying they have a .243, .50BMG etc for fox only. Please can you include the date of grant so we can separate current from historic practice.

there are regional variations as well as historic variations to what is granted. its a pain. i suspect there are people with multiples of guns of the same caliber, you have to have good reason and a dedicated NV set up would be good reason. I discussed this with my FEO at a home visit suggesting I may request a 2nd 243 for fox NV set up, in principle he felt it was reasonable and I suspect he would grant it should I apply.
There is a huge number of posts that highlight the regional differences (and this can be within the same police region). There are guidelines that the police are supposed to follow but this is not always the case and leaves a lot of subjectivity even if they are.
If you think what you are asking for is reasonable given your experiance, shooting oppertunities etc then I would stick to your initial plans and support your application with a letter that outlines this. Polite but firm is the best approach.
 
I also come under cheshire and they are one if not worst force in england..they dont follow the guidelines and make there own up as they go along..but ref NV i have x2 -223 one with dedicated NV but have had that for many many yrs now..also other same cals x2 with NV.

I did have a run in with Cheshire a few yrs ago when i tried get 243 which i still don't have and they were being funny with me having so many same cal x2 rifles with Day/NV optics they said you can change the scopes in seconds from a day optic to night which i said your wrong its not a case of just swapping...we then got into a heated conversation which i wont say on here...even though it was them who allowed me same cal x2 rifles many yrs ago.

Cheshire don't have a clue about what's involved in today's shooting there very ANTI from what i make out

Good luck mate.

Mick
 
as .243 is generally considered the minimum deer calibre I can see why they would question what benefit it would be over a calibre shooting lighter bullets

I dont agree with it as it is your choice not theirs but if that is what they do in Manchester you could be p1ssing into the wind.

why not ask for a 22-250 if the .243 is a no go?

Personally I have always made sure that i have as many options on a rifle as possible, if its the difference between a £50 paid stalk and getting the calibre you want is that an issue?
There is no official guidance to suggest you need either "x amount of stalks" or "DSC1" to be conditioned for deer. push back and/or get the BASC etc involved (although I have no experience of that and hear it can be a painful process!)
 
In response to Irish Bob's request, mine was granted last week. I asked for vermin / deer on my application.

Paul
 
Cheshire will follow the guidelines but you may have to high light the particular section to them in order to obtain the outcome you are applying for.

You will be able to have fox granted as a separate condition to deer for upto and including 6.5mm.

They will authorise this. However with one caveat. They follow 13.23 of the guidance to the letter.

Fox

13.23
Common rifle cartridges considered

suitable for the shooting of foxes range from

.17 Remington, and .22 Hornet to .22 -250

and .220 Swift, though there is a wide range

of suitable similar calibres commercially

available. In windy areas, where heavier bullets

aid accurate shooting, or if applicants wish to

use one rifle for shooting both deer and foxes

they may choose a rifle in 6mm (.243/.244) or

6.5mm (.264) calibre.

This means however that you give up any other centrefire rifles you have conditioned for fox so that you have .243 or 6.5mm minimum and nothing of a smaller calibre on your cert.


 
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Cheshire will follow the guidelines but you may have to high light the particular section to them in order to obtain the outcome you are applying for.

You will be able to have fox granted as a separate condition to deer for upto and including 6.5mm.

They will authorise this. However with one caveat. They follow 13.23 of the guidance to the letter.

Fox

13.23
Common rifle cartridges considered

suitable for the shooting of foxes range from

.17 Remington, and .22 Hornet to .22 -250

and .220 Swift, though there is a wide range

of suitable similar calibres commercially

available. In windy areas, where heavier bullets

aid accurate shooting
, or if applicants wish to

use one rifle for shooting both deer and foxes

they may choose a rifle in 6mm (.243/.244) or

6.5mm (.264) calibre.


This means however that you give up any other centrefire rifles you have conditioned for fox so that you have .243 or 6.5mm minimum and nothing of a smaller calibre on your cert.




to me that reads as your answer:
" I wish a .243 for fox only, I have no deer on my land and require a heavier bullet than a .22CF can throw to ensure safe and humane shots" the end

it does not mean you have to give up anything
I will soon have .222 and .243 both conditioned for fox, one is intended to be an NV rifle, (however if I change that I still expect to use it as a day scoped deer capable rifle)
 
to me that reads as your answer:
" I wish a .243 for fox only, I have no deer on my land and require a heavier bullet than a .22CF can throw to ensure safe and humane shots" the end

it does not mean you have to give up anything
I will soon have .222 and .243 both conditioned for fox, one is intended to be an NV rifle, (however if I change that I still expect to use it as a day scoped deer capable rifle)

I totally agree with you Bewsher. Completely.

You could and quite rightly argue the point as highlighted by yourself.
 
I totally agree with you Bewsher. Completely.

You could and quite rightly argue the point as highlighted by yourself.

Probably the wrong use of the word argue by me too as it is in black and white. The important word being "or" of course.
 
Varies from county to county - Sussex allow .243 for dedicated fox, Surrey don't allow anything larger than .222 - I shoot in both county's but can now shoot fox with my .243 as have an open ticket conditioned for deer, fox and any lawful quarry.

Bewsher's point's a very good one though.

I suggest you say you want it for Fox and Deer - say you would like to start going on paid deer stalks and as it is not yet a legal requirement to have DSC1 you would like to try a few stalks before you decide whether to do your DSC1. Follow this up with the fact that you want 1 rifle that will do both fox and deer and the .243 is the minimum legal requirment for both (suggest you use 55gn .243 rounds for fox, 80-100gn for deer).

Good luck :)
 
Varies from county to county - Sussex allow .243 for dedicated fox, Surrey don't allow anything larger than .222 - I shoot in both county's but can now shoot fox with my .243 as have an open ticket conditioned for deer, fox and any lawful quarry.

Bewsher's point's a very good one though.

I suggest you say you want it for Fox and Deer - say you would like to start going on paid deer stalks and as it is not yet a legal requirement to have DSC1 you would like to try a few stalks before you decide whether to do your DSC1. Follow this up with the fact that you want 1 rifle that will do both fox and deer and the .243 is the minimum legal requirment for both (suggest you use 55gn .243 rounds for fox, 80-100gn for deer).

Good luck :)

Well I don't believe any force would deviate from the Guidelines when challenged. If they do still insist to deviate then it is one for Professional Standards and the guidelines will be implemented.
 
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Well I don't believe any force would deviate from the Guidelines when challenged. If they do still insist to deviate then it is one for Professional Standards and the guidelines will be implemented.

Not sure I get your point Jon - are you saying it's "Guidelines" that you should have a DSC1? If your ticket says "Deer on accompanied/paid-for stalks" (as mine used to) then I don't see why the issuing force would have an issue with this?
 
Not sure I get your point Jon - are you saying it's "Guidelines" that you should have a DSC1? If your ticket says "Deer on accompanied/paid-for stalks" (as mine used to) then I don't see why the issuing force would have an issue with this?

Sure. What I mean BD is for example, if I come under Surrey jusridiction and I cite 13.23 in order to obtain .243 for fox. I can then use .243 for fox in Surrey.

So using 13.23 in the guidance to obtain fox only.
 
No it is not.i have a 22-250 and 6.5x47 both conditioned for fox.home office guidance says 243 ok for fox-try quoting your permission gets windy as that should satisfy the standing criteria to get that calibre.if not seek help of b.a.s.c or other shooting organisations you should belong to.a.t.b.richard.
 
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