new NGO deer section

stone

Well-Known Member
okay
we all should know by now that the NGO has formed a new commitee to help run the new deer section that has been set up within the organisation
David Whitby (Petworth ) is head of that commitee
just wondering what are any one's thoughts on this and what you members are expecting from them?
any thoughts and ideas from you NGO members
and if there is an NGO spokesperson on site any ideas on which way you are heading with this section?
regards
stone
 
NGO

Hiya Stone

A mate of mine is on the commitee and he has high hopes for it - he's relatively new to stalking (although a very experienced head keeper), and will be trying to represent the views of newcomers like myself.

There are also plenty of very experienced commitee members, so hopefully a good balance of views.

Cheers

Daemon

:D
 
For gamekeepers I'm sure it is a valuable addition to their association's field of expertise and I wish them well. For the amateur stalker, however, I remain of the opinion that is BASC who best represents their interests. There has been a lengthy debate on this forum just recently about who does what for whom but, to be honest, all one has to do is take a look at their respective web sites and the answer is clear.

From the NGO -

The National Gamekeepers' Organisation is the representative body for gamekeepers in England and Wales.

We defend and promote gamekeeping, help gamekeepers and ensure high standards throughout the profession.

From BASC -

BASC is a national representative body for sporting shooting. We have five strategic objectives:

A strong and unified voice for shooting
All-party backing for shooting
Balanced comment in the media
Continuing opportunity to go shooting
High standards

I am not a gamekeeper and therefore do not have any reason to be a member of the NGO. I have yet to discover precisely what they manage to achieve for their non-gamekeeper members beyond offering an insurance package which some suggest may fail at the first fence if it is ever put to the test. On the other hand I have nothing but praise for BASC and all that they strive for and I will be forever thankful for the help and opportunities they offered when I first started stalking.

I have every respect for professional gamekeepers and fully support their desire to have their own representative body. Examine their web site - you will find only scant reference to the interests of the recreational shooter and then only in the context of how it might affect the gamekeeping profession; and that is how it should be. From their web site -

"Having a new Deer Branch will . . . encourage the professional stalker's view to be heard at national level."

Somehow, this from BASC appears to have gone unnoticed - Deer Stalker Network Wales

Has anybody else this side of Offa's Dyke heard anything about it?
 
I joined the NGO this year after my BASC was due for renewal, mine was purely a financial move and the deer section looked a good idea.
The money I saved I made my high seat with ;)

Iwrch

I emailed Basc about the deer section in Wales as i am only just over the border in north west Herefordshire, but they never got back to me!!!!!


Jonathon
 
Hello All

I am not a Gamekeeper but joined the NGO as a subscriber for £30 per year and this gave me the same insurance cover as a full time keeper.

I was especially attracted to the NGO this year because of the new department they are opening concerning deer. This new section is of no threat to any of the other organisations it is just that the NGO recognises that Stalking is becoming so much more popular that it is offering the same services.

It would be very nice to have a spokesperson for the NGO on this site to help with the questions.

Regards

Steve.
 
Good luck to them, I hope it delivers all that the NGO member interested in deer want and need.

243, I know you snet me a PM about it, but all I have is your christian name- not much to go on.

Everyone that e-mailed about the scheme has been replied to and kept in the loop, either your e-mail did not get through to us, or our e-mail back to you did not get through.

Anyway, if you are still interested let me know.

You may know that BASC has a regular deer e-newsletter, issue 10 has just been sent out.

David
 
In my opinion it is a good idea on all parts for the organizations to take up the issues facing the deer stalker .Like has been said before deerstalking is on the increase and we are being attacked from all sides mainly from withing DCS DI etc . The major organisations have jumped in bed with the DI and gave there full back both verbally and financially lets hope the others don't and that will give us a choice.
We are at the moment in for a big change in Scotland this came from the horses mouth what change will be what ever the organization can get passed in scottish parliament. We need an independent voice and i am afraid BASC IS NOT THAT VOICE .
David i know you come on here with all the good intentions but when the real questions get asked like the financial backing of closed deer management group taking over staling down south you did not answer don't be selective about what questions you choose answer them all they are all relevant to armature stalker even if some think they are not. ;)
 
David BASC said:
Good luck to them, I hope it delivers all that the NGO member interested in deer want and need.

243, I know you snet me a PM about it, but all I have is your christian name- not much to go on.

Everyone that e-mailed about the scheme has been replied to and kept in the loop, either your e-mail did not get through to us, or our e-mail back to you did not get through.

Anyway, if you are still interested let me know.

You may know that BASC has a regular deer e-newsletter, issue 10 has just been sent out.

David

Thanks David
I did get the email about the news letter but nothing about the welsh scheme.
Regards
Joanthon
 
Davie,

There is no closed shop (I assume you are talking about the DI?) down south. The DI have clearly made this point on another thread on this forum. All the organisations listed on the DI site pay the same fee to be partner orgs by the way.

If ANY BASC member has had their stalking taken away by the DI please send me the full details and I promise I will investigate and report back. Send the detials to me at Marford Mill by post or e-mail me at david.ilsley@basc.org.uk

Apart from that what questions do you think I am avoiding?

On the Scotland issue, (DCS?) I think BASC were the lone voice agianst the (potentially) restrictive poposals. Maybe that is not want you think stalkers in Scotland want?

I did post on this very issue a few weeks ago...

David
 
David BASC said:
On the Scotland issue, (DCS?) I think BASC were the lone voice agianst the (potentially) restrictive poposals. Maybe that is not want you think stalkers in Scotland want?


David

David

Do you know what is the latest position regarding this insane proposal? Is it dead in the water yet?
 
Not dead, still on going, new thread on this as you have probably seen.

BASC position is the same - keep stalking open to recreational stalkers and open to all. Our press release from the end of Jan is still current in relation to our position.

Would like ot see the NGO position posted here - first big thing for their deer section I guess.

D
 
Guys
i posted this as to see what thoughts and suggestions you may hav for and against the NGO setting up a deer management section
not to have a dig at BASC about stuff that already has been discussed and still can be discussed on the relevant threads that are still active
As this is a new section in the NGO and i know that members and friends of the newley elected counsel are either on this site or watching it carefully
then a few suggestions to try and point them in the right way might help
i was told that they were open to suggestions , as i was told that they are looking to start DMQ 1+2 courses and others so they could get some funding in from the off :rolleyes:
as it was their first deer counsel meeting last sunday to discuss matters it should not be long before a response from them is in the offing from the result of this meeting
i do hope that they hav a representive on site to try and help answer any questions that arise and also to share their views and give an idea of which direction they might be heading
regards
Stone
 
NGO stalking

funny david says everyone interested in BASC stal;king is kept in loop have registered years ago and asked at game fairs for info heard zilcjh and given up on BASC

Hopeing the NGO deer branch is not kept as new start for failed ADM which brotherton started.
 
Re: NGO stalking

roedeerred said:
funny david says everyone interested in BASC stal;king is kept in loop have registered years ago and asked at game fairs for info heard zilcjh and given up on BASC

Hopeing the NGO deer branch is not kept as new start for failed ADM which brotherton started.
roedeerred
i am getting emails from BASC as i hav expressed an interest in certian items
not many granted
but every time they start or think about a new course that concerns stalking in an area i am interested in , then i get an email to this effect
try PM'ing David to try and get it sorted but sure if you had phoned BASC direct then i know something would of happened if not tell us about it
ignorance is bliss i know but don't help in the long run
express your concerns by allmeans as this may help others
but i do agree with ytour concerns to the NGO
but they do hav a mixed bunch on the counsel
which should proove fun and hopefully give mixed views towards stalking and it's future but and a big but i hav my reservations
as a band wagon seems to be rolling in here
 
I say about time!

I've been a member of the NGO for years ,and have always found them first rate and offer their members exceptional vale for money. As they see it as providing a service to their memebership rather than as a pure profit making exercise.

If the fees they charge for the rest of their training courses are anything to go by the cost of doing your DSC1&2 through them should be very good value for money.

I for one hope they work more closely with the DI and the new DCS set up. In order to bring about a more coordinated approach to managing the UK deer population, and to hopefully weed out the rotten apples along the way.
 
I am talking a bout a few things David that most organisations seem to flannel over .What the DI write and what they do is to separate things with regards it being a closed shop well you try and join and see were you get. The massive over population of deer managed by chaps who shoot the deer like vermin .Then let the numbers get to high levels again and hit them again like some accident buffalo drive. Supported by all government bodies to cut down RTA,S it is disgusting and certainly not ethical at all. A total disregard for the animals we are supposed to manage.

We have the DCS who want to turn Scotland into a closed shop who say that the DMQ 2 is certainly not what they want to be the required certificate needed to stalk deer in Scotland. They will i am told take a few bits from it but there will be some major changes.
So we have BASC /DMQ Trying to get every one involved with the DMQ When in real terms for any one wanting to stalk deer north of the border its a dead duck.
So any one thinking of doing level two who's stalking is in Scotland will need to think again,

PS I was told that basc and other organisations had discussed all the new plans in principle,
 
There is nothing to join! The DI are not a shooting club, they are not a stalking syndicate, they are not a deer management group.

They are a government and independently funded organisation tasked with improving the way the deer population of England and Wales(Not Scotland) are controlled(managed). Through advise and facilitation.

The half dozen occasions I have had dealings with them they have always been, professional, helpfull, decent. and knowledgeable.

The ethics of deer control are complex and those who throw them into the discussion arena, in order to try and support their misinformed and misguided views, need to examine their own views closely before walking further into the arena. Especially on the use of dogs in the taking of deer.

As far as I am aware the DI have never been involved in mass culls, where deer are shot like vermin. I'm not sure what an accident buffalo drive looks like.

The DCS proposal for a Deer Stalkers register is no different to similar schemes that are in place in Europe, and they work rather well.
 
Clem said:
The DCS proposal for a Deer Stalkers register is no different to similar schemes that are in place in Europe, and they work rather well.

I think the DCS proposals are rather different. What they are proposing to do is to create another form of qualification which all stalkers will have to have.

The rather heavy stick the DCS has is that they will send in their stalkers and send the landowner the bill if you don't cull deer.

It would be a rather different affair if the Deer Initiative were to be billing the owners of the land over which it operates. Maybe if it did the role of the part-time professional stalker (no point in describing us as recreational stalkers we are part-time pro's) would be encouraged more by land owners.

The point that the DCS and the SGO are pushing hard is that the job of culling deer is beyond the capability of recreational stalkers. So lets stop putting ourselves down by calling us recreational stalkers and start playing ourselves up as part-time professionals.

Dave
 
Clem seems like you deal with the DI quite regularly and that they never mass cull driving deer to waiting guns shooing every thing in site. If they are what you say they are just an advice centre :lol: :lol: Then maybe the venison returns are form mars and the chillers are for the idiots sitting in high seats waiting for the invisible deer to be slaughtered whole sale. You can pick on my spelling mate that's the type of chap your are but you cant hide the organisation that takes hundreds of thousand of pound to slaughter deer .Figures and money don't lie. BASC and others are throwing money at them and supporting these barbaric act.s
Funny you should mention dogs as i am told they are a major part of the drive and will regularly catch a few deer that come back on the line.s

who are they what are they were are they and how much do they get paid. BETER NOT ASK UNEDUCATED WILL COME ON IN SUPPORT. :lol:
 
DI and DCS

I think that the DI is England and Wales version of the Scottish DCS.

so with that in mind ....

What we are missing here is the process of self preservation in regard of the DCS in Scotland.

The DCS has been put up for a merger with SNH (scottish natural heritage) These are 2 quango's (non elected commitees funded by government to tell government what they want to hear, imagine what might happen if they did not? that is the whole point of a quango) The people running these organisations (quangos) are very adept political animals who know the process inside and out.

So point is they need to come up with a workload to keep DCS in business and make it impossible to merge take place. Now the merger seems straight forward until you find it costs less to keep someone in employment in the public sector than make him/her redundant and keep them on benenfits, add that to the bad press involved and you have a solution. (although no redundancies are proposed :p :p )

DCS gets new powers and the world keeps going around.

Here if you speak politician esperanto and cannot sleep:

http://openscotland.gov.uk/Resource/Doc/1051/0059608.pdf
 
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