A Max

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Peter Eaton

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This has probably been discussed before and not sure where to post this but opted for here. My question is regarding A Max for deer, I know there are posts on here regarding them being good for deer and there are countless posts on the net regarding their use for deer. As I understand it they used to be advertised as a deer bullet but I am not sure if there are now. Now I know a FMJ, dimple type match bullet etc should not be used on deer but am told A Max will expand and so will kill deer with ease. What are the views on their use? as if they do indeed expand in a 'controlled' manner ( what-ever that is ) and could be shown to do so ie in ballistic gel, then would that satisfy the regs? Or is it a case of even if a bullet will expand , if it is called a match bullet it cannot be used and if for example bullets such as BTs, V Max and SSTs were re-branded as match bullets would their use now become questionable?
 
Lol.. I did but couldnt get a definative answer, though I would like to know as I have been told by sales folk in shops etc that they are good for deer and then spent five minutes arguing the toss saying although they may kill a deer they arent actually legal. Would be good to get an answer once and for all from someone who might know.
 
a guy i know emailed hornady and asked them what was the difference between a-max and v-max.
the reply was........."the box";):D
 
With genuine great respect to all the posters on this thread, I would say this topic has been ably - if admittedly protractedly - covered in previous threads and mostly to the overall discredit of the Forum.

An Admin statement as a sticky - such as was issued regards off-ticket moderator issue - would I feel be beneficial to all. Chickenman's query is one that keeps arising and one purpose of the forum is a resource to answer such queries - so no issue that he seeks to resolve it. But a straightforward sticky would save the frequent bun fight that follows. Equally, the previous posts are so numerous and long that I can sympathise fully that a search is not always effective in clarifying this question.

To that end - and not sure if entitled to request this - and certainly in doing so wish to be clear no reflection intended upon Chickenman - would locking this thread not save a lot of 'heartache'?
 
I certainly dont mind you saying that Moray as I wanted to get the answer regarding A max and will be printing a selection of the old replies off to keep. I never realised it had been covered before but even so it is a double edged sword as it highlight the issue for those who might be recommended A max and believe what a someone in a shop tells them, which I cannot understand when there are so many bullets designed for the sole purpose of culling deer. I trust a few more will be educated.
 
Chickenman - thank you for your understanding response - phew! Last thing I wanted was it to be considered any form of personal slight.


With hindsight I should have PM'd you firstly - and I apologise unreservedly for that.

I fully agree with your position regards ready access to a 'considered position' on a subject that does keep coming up - hence suggestion that a sticky would be a good idea. On subject of searches, I can't myself find a previous post on the subject that I thought Admin did - which covered things nicely and could simply be pasted to such a sticky. Could well have been from someone else... or the my fantasy world: real world boundaries are blurring.... again :confused:
 
chickenman my experience is that advise offered by many (not all) gun shop staff is often wrong, often very wrong.


Moray Outfitting I've previously suggested that the position regarding A-Max bullets be made a sticky perhaps just repeating the statements made by BASC and the NRA following consultations with ACPO and the Home Office. Unfortunately that suggestion appears to have been overlooked by the site staff.

Leadpig that's certainly not the reply that I had from Hornady when I consulted them some 18 months or so ago, and not the reply that they gave to BASC or the NRA either from what I can gather.
 
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Moray....Thats ok and understand what your saying and no need to apologise as no offence taken )). Having read the other threads I agree it would be a good idea for a sticky as it will help others, esp thoses just starting out in stalking / reloading. I think it was you in the previous thread made the comment about match shooters using them and how they could suffer as such, very good point.

and 8x57

chickenman my experience is that advise offered by many (not all) gun shop staff is often wrong, often very wrong.

I couldnt agree more, hence the only reason I asked , just to clear up what I was thinking myself.
 
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Leadpig that's certainly not the reply that I had from Hornady when I consulted them some 18 months or so ago, and not the reply that they gave to BASC or the NRA either from what I can gather.
thats what he was told bud,i just checked:D
but it was a long time ago and before all the kerfuffle about them being used on ranges;)
 
As had been mentioned above... this has been done to death....

Previous announcement from BASC

BASC clears up ammunition confusion.

20 October 2011

Confusion over whether Hornady A-Max US manufactured match target shooting rounds can continue to be used for target shooting has been cleared up with help from the UK’s largest shooting organisation, the British Association for Shooting and Conservation (BASC).

BASC has had confirmation from ACPO and the Home Office that in their opinion the Hornady A-Max rounds are not classed as expanding ammunition and can continue to be used for target shooting

There was confusion over whether the ammunition was prohibited from use for target shooting because it might be classed as expanding ammunition, so BASC provided evidence that the design of the round was for target shooting rather than as an expanding bullet.

BASC’s senior firearms officer Mike Eveleigh said: “It was important to establish the design intention as that is what matters for the law. Discussions have been complex but are testament to how the shooting community can work with the police and government to find common ground."

A-Max are arguably not designed as expanding ammunition and therefore, under current UK law, their use on deer is questionable, legally.

No, there have been no prosecutions for their use or test cases that classify them 100% as non-expanding. Yes, there has been loads of confusion and conflicting advice.

However... if you have a deer condition on your FAC then you will also have an expanding ammunition condition. Therefore why not buy V-Max and be confident you are 100% within the law rather than putting yourself in the grey area?

Personally I would not advise anyone to assume A-Max are deer legal and as V-Max are available then why take the risk? If you want to go ahead and be the test case and you are well versed in law and have deep pockets and a specialist legal team then that is your concern but, as a co-owner of this site, I think it would be wrong to recommend others to do the same and, speaking for the site, I would not advise you to use ammunition marketed as target use (whether it looks the same under a microscope etc etc) for use on deer where the law calls for expanding ammunition.
 
On the bottom of Hornady's HITS calculator it used to state

A-MAX™ and BTHP Match
Rapid, explosive expansion with limited penetration.
Recommended muzzle velocity range: 2000+ fps.
These bullets are not recommended for hunting medium and large game.

It now states

A-MAX™ and BTHP Match
A-MAX and BTHP are not tested for expansion.
Recommended muzzle velocity range: 2000+ fps.
These bullets are not recommended for hunting.

I use a 25-06 so cannot get A-MAX but if I could and I was using them and getting good results I may tell my stalking buddies but would not be telling every man and his dog on a forum like this.

Rick
 
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Personally I would not advise anyone to assume A-Max are deer legal and as V-Max are available then why take the risk?

Though there might be more suitable bullets for use on deer sized game than some in the V Max range. ;)

From the Hornady website:

V-Max™

The industry's leading varmint bullet with polymer tip and streamlined design results in ultra flat trajectories. The match grade jacket design provides maximum accuracy at all ranges as well as explosive expansion, even at low velocities.

Controlled expansion and a degree of weight retention might be what I would personally look for in a bullet for deer, rather than 'explosive expansion'.
 
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Indeed... Entirely separate debate that one though and didn't want it to cloud the point!
 
i started the amax thread i use 130g nosler for deer and 162g for targets :eek: they are good long rainge heads but keeping your licence is more important than the use of rounds not designed for sporting porpose they are used in usa best of the west use them to 1000yards on elk as well as the berger vld both at the time target heads berger now manufacture vld hunting rounds.amax will kill uk deer no dought about that but not legal for that use in uk with the ever present wild life police one copper who knows the difrence can cost you your licence not worth the risk in my book just purchase the v max or vld hunting round stay safe stay legal
 
You may be right but guys who shoot elk at 1000 yards aren't do be trusted as a litmus with regard to bullet choices, or any other ethical questions. Shooting elk at 1000 yards is an act of showmanship and I resent people using elk as a substitute for a paper target.

Just the opinion of a guy who lives in elk country...~Muir
 
You may be right but guys who shoot elk at 1000 yards aren't do be trusted as a litmus with regard to bullet choices, or any other ethical questions. Shooting elk at 1000 yards is an act of showmanship and I resent people using elk as a substitute for a paper target.

Just the opinion of a guy who lives in elk country...~Muir

Well said....
 
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