has anybody ever fought the police, re conditions etc

Scots_stalker

Well-Known Member
i keep hearing about police overstepping their powers or adding conditions to folks tickets etc , has anybody ever said , no i am not accepting that ?
if so did you win , loose get refused a ticket etc ?
 
I did Brian i wanted my 6.5 for wild boar and after a few chats on the phone regards what the rifle can offer and what chance i might have of shooting a wild boar they changed there mind and gave me a 6.5 for Boar and i am now going for a second time shooting them. ;)
 
I did Brian i wanted my 6.5 for wild boar and after a few chats on the phone regards what the rifle can offer and what chance i might have of shooting a wild boar they changed there mind and gave me a 6.5 for Boar and i am now going for a second time shooting them. ;)

If you succeed in getting one, please keep the cleaves, some skin and some guts. There will be lots on interested in these.
 
I will do Baron and i will have my wee bitch with me to pull it down should i wing it lol
 
i keep hearing about police overstepping their powers or adding conditions to folks tickets etc , has anybody ever said , no i am not accepting that ?
if so did you win , loose get refused a ticket etc ?

Oh yes but I found that when I produced reasoned arguments they agreed.
 
Yes hants wanted my son to have Dsc 1, we said no and they backed down, they accepted that working as a gamekeeper was enough. It never reached the writing letters stage I just asked the flo where it said that it was required in the firearms act, his reply was the chief constable likes them, to which I replied I like a lot of things but shan't ask the CC to do them, ticket came back with usual areas passed for calibre etc etc.
 
A friend was to have a few ridiculous conditions imposed on him on his first FAC, he was a member of the armed forces, we sent a well worded letter in response and he was granted an open certificate. You can get your own way if you know how to ask.
 
All the time, although usually because if niggly conditions like foxes only when in pursuit of deer etc. Some they changed straight away and others took a re request every time I put in a variation/renewal or change of ammo quantities! Got there in the end and a fantastic set of calibres and conditions now!!
 
My force Norfolk/Suffolk seem to just put deer and any other lawful quarry on fac's I can't see why that's not the accepted condition wouldn't that just be so much easier if they were to do this for everybody?
 
Mongoose, spoke to hants last week and AOLQ apparently does not include animals above deer, which apparently are boar, goats and sheep, you could not make it up if you tried.
 
As the courts have held (R v Cambridge Crown Court ex parte Buckland, 1998) that there is no right of appeal against the imposition of conditions (as opposed to a refusal to grant or renew a certificate) chief officers will wish to be cautious in imposing conditions that might amount to a constructive refusal to grant or renew a certificate, that is additional conditions that would make possession or use so difficult as to be redundant in practice.
 
Hi guys,

In law there is no appeal to the conditions that the chief officer of police may wish to add onto yours or anyone’s certificate. I went through an appeal last year and won with what calibers we were allowed to be used on the Island as we don’t have deer or fox on the Isle of Man.
BASC helped and fought my corner in court and I won hands down, but BASC had said that it is in the home office guide lines that if the chief constable wishes to place conditions on my certificate he can do and there is no legal route for appeal. Be careful who you tell this too guys as a lot/most police force haven’t read that part of the guidance and are unaware that they can use this to their advantage.
The only time that a route of appeal is possible is if the chief office tries to impose over restrictive conditions in order to make the rifle redundant in practice or basically try taken the **** so you are unable to use the rifle due to over restrictive conditions.
But I have found that like has already been said, you can get what you want most if you word things right and back the pleasantly into a corner.


Hope this is of some help guys?


Steve.
 
Mongoose, spoke to hants last week and AOLQ apparently does not include animals above deer, which apparently are boar, goats and sheep, you could not make it up if you tried.

You see I was told differently as I specifically asked my FLO and FLD if the any other lawful quarry meant just that boar,billys etc and they said yes, this is what annoys me my friend who lives just down the road in Cambridgeshire has hell and all problems with his FLD and usually gets different answers to the same questions from his FLD compared to mine.......
 
Mongoose, spoke to hants last week and AOLQ apparently does not include animals above deer, which apparently are boar, goats and sheep, you could not make it up if you tried.

You don't need to - they are making it up!

I think the police would have a hard job persuading the CPS that 'any other lawful quarry' meant something other than the obvious meaning conveyed by those four words.

Anyhow, back to the OP.

There is no right to appeal via the courts against FAC conditions. That does not mean it is unlawful to invite the FLD to reconsider conditions that, in the light of information and opinion that you may submit with that invitation, they might think unreasonable.

So while there is no redress via the courts against FAC conditions, FAC-holders certainly have a right (or duty, even?) to request review of condtions they consider unreasonable. If the FLD agrees that the condition is unreasonable, it is therefore unlawful and must be removed.

The thing here is to make a robust case in support of the hypothesis that the condition you consider unreasonable actually is unreasonable; or put another way, if the conditions are restricting you because the FLD has worries about some aspect of your skill or experience, give them the evidence they need to stop them worrying.

Myself, I wouldn't call it fighting - it's more explaining, really, and both providing evidence and asking for the evidence the FLD are using to maintain their contrary position (if they indeed are doing so!).

Not fighting, but constructive dialogue. Or, at worst, wrestling: keep your arguments slick and well-oiled, your feet firmly on the ground and your bearing dignified. 'Fighting' makes me think of knuckle-dusters, broken bottles and chair-legs; the verbal and epistolary equivalents of which are not wanted in this particular arena!
 
i keep hearing about police overstepping their powers or adding conditions to folks tickets etc , has anybody ever said , no i am not accepting that ?
if so did you win , loose get refused a ticket etc ?

I've never fought the police, or officially appealed - I've simply written a polite well structured letter, or called them with the same attitude. I have a fully open ticket and numerous rifles for shooting what I've requested :)
 
I had a spat with norfolk when we had a guy who did not like guns or those who held them in charge, I wanted a moderator when they first came out, a five shot 20 bore to replace my 28 bore, and a 223 for foxes as well, he refused both as not needed!! With the help og Gerry Atwood who invented the Husher, and WAGBI as then was, we went to court with my own expert defence. They settled on the steps of the court and granted me all I had requested, subject to the following, that if granted a 223 for foxes, I did not use my 243 to shoot them, and that my 28 bore was reduced to a 3 shot magazine. It was pointed out that the 28 bore was already off my FACE as sold, I agreed and was later was granted the usual conditions for all my rifles to shoot a fox if seen. We have a much more agreeable FAC dept now, very helpful and knowledgeable, since the departure of the Senior Policeman in charge of Norfolk several years ago. Basically if you have a need and use for a firearm and can prove it, they are very receptive, if you feel you are right get expert opinion, not from here or another FAC holder, but someone who deals regular with these issues. deerwarden
 
if you have to fight you have already lost.

getting what you want starts before you download the variation form.
prepare your case, detail exactly what you want and why giving all possible reasons for the FEO to get it off his desk.
If you make his life easy it will get his rubber stamp.

if you ask for a 50BMG for fox and dont detail anything else, expect a fight
 
They settled on the steps of the court and granted me all I had requested, subject to the following, that if granted a 223 for foxes, I did not use my 243 to shoot them
This is utter nonsense, within the context of the main purpose of the firearms act it makes no difference at all which of these rifles you used to shoot a fox, where is the good reason issue? Obviously if you were carrying your .243 in expectation of a deer and saw a fox you would shoot it and if you were only intending to shoot a fox you would be carrying the .223. i.e. you have "good reason" for both. atb Tim
 
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