The 'Menace' of wild boar

Anybody see this:-

http://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/Article.aspx/2924874

Why oh why is the SGA so anti wild boar?

They're in support of seasonal protection for sika but agin the RE-introduction of a native animal?

Is it just my cynical mind or is this a case of 'we don't like what we don't know'?


If I was putting money on the answer I'd go with... Another omnivorous critter that can wipe out game? and for whom conventional stock fencing is not much of a barrier....... No thanks!
 
they knock over feeders and generally are a pain in the arse ok, so any excuse to get rid of a pest then?

If boar kill lambs I'd like to see that evidence, any little bit of footage would do :-|
 
they knock over feeders and generally are a pain in the arse ok, so any excuse to get rid of a pest then?

If boar kill lambs I'd like to see that evidence, any little bit of footage would do :-|

I don't know if they kill lambs, but my European clients tell me they kill new born Roe, been told this by numerous
clients so suspect there is more than a grain of truth in it.

They can do serious damage to crops, and while the idea of boar roaming freely might appeal to some stalkers
in the main those of us involved in land management are against their introduction.

Previous poster mentioned Sika and considering the damage they have done to our native Red deer by cross breeding
[ many experts believe that only Reds living on some of the Hebridean Islands can be classed as truly pure, which is why its illegal to release Red Deer on the islands as any introduction can't be guaranteed pure]

So in light of what they have done to our native deer I believe they should never have been allowed to become established, however they are now widespread and their eradication nigh impossible, so we just need to accept
what we have let happen and live with it.

Some argue that Boar were once native to this country, which of course they were, however the country side has changed a great deal since those times.

At the moment there are no close season for Boar, considering the hue and cry there is about out of season permits and night shooting of deer, it would be a lot worse with Boar considering they can do far more damage than deer.

May be thought controversial by some, but from a land managers point of view I say shoot on sight don't let them become established .
 
The UK has a growing boar population and they are there to stay. So instead of living in cloud cuckoo land and thinking you can shoot them out its better to work out how your going to manage them.

True they will turn over all your feeders overnight, everynight. Yes they do damage agriculteral land. No they don't damage forest. They may take the odd roe but its strange that the places i work my dogs on have a very high boar population and plenty of roe and of high quality. they also run very successful pheasant shoot there. It is a bit scary when a huge boar comes out of a drive and stands and looks at you when you are armed with nothing more than a spaniel. Or the spaniel is nearly mown down by a boar during a pheasant drive.
They are here to stay. Learn to live with them
 
I don't know if they kill lambs, but my European clients tell me they kill new born Roe, been told this by numerous
clients so suspect there is more than a grain of truth in it.

They can do serious damage to crops, and while the idea of boar roaming freely might appeal to some stalkers
in the main those of us involved in land management are against their introduction.

Previous poster mentioned Sika and considering the damage they have done to our native Red deer by cross breeding
[ many experts believe that only Reds living on some of the Hebridean Islands can be classed as truly pure, which is why its illegal to release Red Deer on the islands as any introduction can't be guaranteed pure]

So in light of what they have done to our native deer I believe they should never have been allowed to become established, however they are now widespread and their eradication nigh impossible, so we just need to accept
what we have let happen and live with it.

Some argue that Boar were once native to this country, which of course they were, however the country side has changed a great deal since those times.

At the moment there are no close season for Boar, considering the hue and cry there is about out of season permits and night shooting of deer, it would be a lot worse with Boar considering they can do far more damage than deer.

May be thought controversial by some, but from a land managers point of view I say shoot on sight don't let them become established .

I tend to sympathise with your dodgy advice. On the other hand I think that wild boar would be a fascinating, if destructive from the keeper or farmer/stockman's P.O.V, additional (not native) quarry and environmental gain species.

The problem with the "shoot on sight" policy currently (as I see it) is the need to address the question of ownership and liabilty. An owner may be liable for the damage they do, equally a shooter may be liable to the owner if these animals are shot without consent. "Getting-away-with-it" is all well and good but denies the reality of killing domestic livestock (albeit escaped ones) without owners' consent.

What is the SGA's standpont on killing them here, right now?
 
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The UK has a growing boar population and they are there to stay. So instead of living in cloud cuckoo land and thinking you can shoot them out its better to work out how your going to manage them.

True they will turn over all your feeders overnight, everynight. Yes they do damage agriculteral land. No they don't damage forest. They may take the odd roe but its strange that the places i work my dogs on have a very high boar population and plenty of roe and of high quality. they also run very successful pheasant shoot there. It is a bit scary when a huge boar comes out of a drive and stands and looks at you when you are armed with nothing more than a spaniel. Or the spaniel is nearly mown down by a boar during a pheasant drive.
They are here to stay. Learn to live with them

Maybe in the south, but in Scotland a few escapees and illegal introductions but not to late to get rid of yet if we make the effort.
 
I tend to sympathise with your dodgy advice. On the other hand I think that wild boar would be a fascinating, if destructive from the keeper or farmer/stockman's P.O.V, additional (not native) quarry and environmental gain species.

The problem with the "shoot on sight" policy currently (as I see it) is the need to address the question of ownership and liabilty. An owner may be liable for the damage they do, equally a shooter may be liable to the owner if these animals are shot without consent. "Getting-away-with-it" is all well and good but denies the reality of killing domestic livestock (albeit esceped ones) without owners' consent.

What is the SGA's standpont on killing them here, right now?


Tamus, what is the law regarding the killing of domestic livestock are they not regarded as feral
after a certain time.

Not sure on that one, as I have culled sheep for a forestry company in the past sheep that had been in the forest for sometime[large young forest don't know how they gained entry as the fences were good] and despite the farmer being asked repeatedly to remove them he had not done so , or more likely had been unable to round them up in the young forestry.
he was informed if they were not removed by certain time they would be shot.

Would the same not apply to Boar?
 
Tamus, what is the law regarding the killing of domestic livestock are they not regarded as feral
after a certain time.

Not sure on that one, as I have culled sheep for a forestry company in the past sheep that had been in the forest for sometime[large young forest don't know how they gained entry as the fences were good] and despite the farmer being asked repeatedly to remove them he had not done so , or more likely had been unable to round them up in the young forestry.
he was informed if they were not removed by certain time they would be shot.

Would the same not apply to Boar?

In the instance you cite, the owner was "asked repeatedly to remove them" presumably this was done formally i.e. in writing, at some point, giving him fair warning nd ample opportunity to act. His failure to act then gives some grounds for the forestry company's subsequent action, i.e. employing you to shoot them... However, I suspect nothing came of the situation more by good luck and common sense than anything else. That is to say the owner "wrote off" his stock rather than be held to account for the nuisance they/he caused. With the right paperwork and a following wind your actions went unchallenged. That doesn't mean they couldn't have been challenged. Though, I can't see any Sheriff being easily presuaded you had acted wrongfully.

"Shoot-on-sight" does not imply the same... due process. I guess you really would want to make every effort to follow the above "due process" first, in order to stay in the right.
 
In the instance you cite, the owner was "asked repeatedly to remove them" presumably this was done formally i.e. in writing, at some point, giving him fair warning nd ample opportunity to act. His failure to act then gives some grounds for the forestry company's subsequent action, i.e. employing you to shoot them... However, I suspect nothing came of the situation more by good luck and common sense than anything else. That is to say the owner "wrote off" his stock rather than be held to account for the nuisance they/he caused. With the right paperwork and a following wind your actions went unchallenged. That doesn't mean they couldn't have been challenged. Though, I can't see any Sheriff being easily presuaded you had acted wrongfully.

"Shoot-on-sight" does not imply the same... due process. I guess you really would want to make every effort to follow the above "due process" first, in order to stay in the right.

OK thanks understood
 
I understand that boar are a foresters friend as they turn over the humus in ther food search which improves the biodiversity in the woods.
Do that on a potato crop and there will be a hue and cry.
money talks.
Martin
 
they may be a pest but the fact is they are back and doing well in some areas. They were here before and we wiped them out through habitat destruction and constant persecution (ok at least a couple of times then since they first got wiped out). Now there is plenty of habitat so they will do fine.

What I find a little upsetting is the way people blindly want to wipe them out without seeing the potential ecological and financial benefits of having them present. A dead lamb (assuming they do actually take them in number as if it wasn't just the foxes after all) is worth £80 once grown and sold ish? An outing for wild boar up a high seat is worth £100 and at least that on top is a shot is made + the value of the carcass.

We control foxes just fine to the benefit of the farmer. The difference between fox and boar though is about £3 a kilo so think about it :-| I will say this right now to avoid confusion. I would compensate a farmer for the relative losses to shoot his wild boar (by my choice of methods and keeping the carcass) if it was them without question causing the damage. Is that a good idea? seems to work very well in Europe!
 
Hi Paul,
Ignore not though, the issue that is happening in germany now as the farmers have gone balls out on maximum maize production due to the raised income potential it has. It is perfect habitat for boar and there are now quite a few hunting leases that no hunter will take on due to the damages bill that the last leasee has had to pay out, I have heard 20,000 Euros in one year bandied about as the worst case.
100 quid an outing to sit up in a high seat? Wow - then I am saving a small fortune living over here, as I get it all for free from most any hunter in my area just for them to get another pair (almost, I am crosseyed and not 20-20 vision) of eyes to control them.
Martin
 
I was speaking to a guy who use to work for Natural England, and he was saying the reason there are none of these things now is because we killed all the dangerous stuff in the name of self preservation... so I think it's entirely possible we could do this again if we put our minds to it... the question is should we?

I love the idea of Boar and wolves being established again in England - ok they have the potential to kill us, but I'm sure more people would get killed by cow trampling every year.

Countries like the US and some in Europe don't seem to have an issue with massive human fatality rates from these creatures, so with that argument aside I guess it's down to whether or not both our ecosystem and agricultural systems can handle species like this (especially the Boar)...

Looking at Germany it does appear to be a massive problem when they come into contact with built up areas, and they obviously cause devistation when they hit farms in large numbers... so I guess I'd suggest the options are either we try and wipe them out, or carefully manage them and keep the numbers limited?
 
Well here's your problem. A stable ecosystem generally is a balanced thing. Mess about with it and tip the balance for or again one particular species and hey presto! there can be dramatic changes positive or negative to population figures.

Lots of mixed forestry with open grassed or crop areas are the ideal mix for deer but maize and boar with similar habitat, wow! a perfect food source and habitat mix to bulk them up and in Germany it's a no brainer for them all over.

Having said that, any intelligent mammal will occupy habitat that can support them and so urban deer and boar and on the increase too.... happy days!
 
I will be in Texas on Monday till the 3rd but they ask a lot of bucks to do boar eradication in Elgin Tx.
I will go over the border to New Mexico and see what turns up.
Martin
 
The article is a bit alarmist!

before shouting for eradication, we have to get our facts right. I'm quite nervous of the fact that SNH aren't really taking this on board. With past experience of mink, grey squirrels, Sika and Hebridean hedgehogs, you would have thought that boar are worth investigating. If we are happy with them here, then fine lets get some management policies in place before we hit the , "Oh **** stage"which is what we normally do. Or we say no it's not a good idea, and deal with it while we can.
i gate the feeling that there isn't much in place in England and it's the shooting community that are taking the lead, correct me if I'm wrong.
 
I think the powers that be are generally very good at saying 'eradicate!' but in logistical terms couldn't organise a **** up in a brewary. In Scotland the Sika, grey squirrels, fallow, soon muntjac and already establishing wild boar will simply blend into the mix over time the same as so many other foreign species already have. Government through SNH aren't actually that bothered but it's funny how the responsibility to control is passed to the people that ultimately hunt them.
 
A friend of mine had a girlfriend whose dad was the manager of a huge state hunting forest/estate in the Czech Republic. When he heard about the population of boar in Scotland, his advice was clear and unequivocal....get rid at all costs while you can. The damage they do is enormous. I think there are two schools of thought developing here...those who view them as a sporting resource, and those who have to manage land. My view is that the pressures on land management are such that we cant afford any further degradation of what is already a fragile balance....so get rid. Same applies to muntjac....shoot every one of the shitty little beasts!!!
 
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