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Thread: Farmers and landowners: Some will run with the foxes and hunt with the hounds!

  1. #1

    Farmers and landowners: Some will run with the foxes and hunt with the hounds!

    Well what a Summer it has been!
    Just a word of warning to all those novice stalkers who are trying to negotiate the minefield of the Law and who finally obtain shooting permissions and can go out on their hard-won land to stalk some deer.

    Case 1:
    On farm 'A' I have deer-stalking permission, all is in writing, nevertheless the farming partners don't seem to communicate internally and one partner signs the sole stalking rights away to another stalker without telling me- or his farming partners. Result: An angry and ugly confrontation under a high seat when the inevitable happened: Stalker 1 meets stalker 2.
    Case 2:
    On farm 'B' the farmer grants me the stalking rights on 'his' land, in writing, and after some 6 visits this summer I find out he doesn't actually own the land, he is a tenant. The land is owned by large Shooting Estate 'X'. Thank you farmer 'B' I have been shooting on land without formal permission from the owner of the sporting rights, potentially exposing me to armed tress-pass and poaching allegations.
    Case 3:
    On farm 'C' I get deer-stalking rights (again, all in writing) and am assured by the farmer I am the only person who shoots deer on his land. But I find out that several other locals also shoot on that land - including deer- and they have such a cosy relationship with the farmer they don't even have to notify him. I check the position with the farmer who assures me (again in writing) that I am the only person who shoots deer on his land. The locals think they have a right which overrides the minor issue of ownership and inform me they WILL go on the land to shoot deer whatever I say, as they have been shooting there for 40 years, and anyway I am a foreigner! A potential disaster waiting to happen.

    In all three cases I believed I had made all the proper arrangements, but due to the farmers being economical with the truth or them not appreciating safety they have exposed me to potentially serious Legal and Safety issues. aware just because someone gives you shooting permission in writing, that doesn't mean they actually own the land. Or own the sporting rights. And if you think you have the sole stalking rights be aware others may think the same, and one day you may stare into each others' barrel. And just because a farmer or landowner assures you that nobody else shoots on the land, that doesn't mean it is true.

    I now look forward to replies with lots of similar stories, some advice on how to avoid the above issues, and some constructive comments on what I should have done differently. Thank you!

  2. #2
    There's a lot to be said for an FC let.

    It all sounds a bit of a nightmare for you.

  3. #3
    Heck you have had some bad luck nearly as bad as me and my mate turned up to stalk a wood to find half of it had been cut down .and a dam good wood too ,

  4. #4
    Ah but woods re-grow and the deer love a sapling

    Every cloud.....

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by long_range_rob View Post
    There's a lot to be said for an FC let.

    It all sounds a bit of a nightmare for you.

    Where everyone just shoots it including the FC!

    I had so much traffic 5 miles down a locked gated FC road I was forced to put up trial cameras.
    half of Glasgow seemed to be shooting all around!

    with the amount of lamping going on across the adjacent plots combined with the apparent volume of hikers (10 miles from the nearest road!) I am surprised anything lived there

    I saw 4 deer in 12 visits

  6. #6
    You don't say whether there is payment involved in any of these permissions. Anyway if a landowner sells or gives you the sole shooting/stalking rights on his land, he/she can no longer sell or give them to anybody else. Your permission paperwork should be a contract between you and the owner. In case 1. you would have to know the policies of the management of the land between the two partners. Does it require a joint decision to sell the stalking/shooting rights? If it be the case that either partner can sell the rights, you being in first have the rights and you should ask that the other stalker be told and his rights which were wrongly given removed.
    In Case 2 it may well be the case that the tennant farmer can protect his crops from deer. His tennancy agreement may give reference to shooting/stalking rights. Certainly is something that should be asked and not taken for granted that the farmer is the owner.
    In Case 3 sounds like you need to get the farmer off the fence and decide whether you or his pals have the stalking rights. If you, his pals become poachers like any others and should be reported. Somehow I don't think your farmer will want to go down that road and in reality probably more hassle than it's worth.

    I recall once being asked by a farmer to shoot foxes that were killing lambs. He printed off a map and marked several areas of ground that he stated were his and that I could stalk/shoot at any time. I specifically asked about other stalkers/persons with rights to shoot and he told me that nobody else had these rights. I even asked him about a specific person that I was sure shot on his ground. I had him sign a contract I use for permissions which clearly gives me sole rights. He willing signed and dated this legally binding document.
    I then find that at least another 3 possibly 4 people including the guy I had specifically asked about had also been given permission. I immediately confronted the farmer to be told that yes there was others but they had no more permission that I had. All he wanted was an immediate solution to his fox probelm. I could easily have pursued the matter through legal channels but walked away.
    Can be a minefield.

  7. #7
    Unfortunately I haven't read anything on this thread yet that suprises me. Shooting in all its forms and guises brings out the best and worst in people be they shooters farmers or land agents etc.

  8. #8
    Lets face it if you buy the shooting rights they are yours .If you get permission to shoot the land the farmer may not have seen anyone shooting there for years and think nobody is shooting.He mabe doing his best to protect his crops. Then someone turns up who has been shooting there for years.( He thinks he was the only one shooting) .You just have to live with this but you will do ok in the end.I once had permission to shoot some land off one brother then the other seen me gave me hell when he caught me till i showed him the permmision in wrighting from his brother.It is always good to have a good talk about pest control and deer management history.Then contact the shooters who shot the ground in the past. good luck regards woodfordfallow

  9. #9
    Plenty of threads the other way round to case 3. "I have been shooting foxes and deer on that land for forty years now some git has gone and bought the deer rights."

  10. #10
    Not had anything quite so bad, but did have an interaction that left me quite angry and confused for a bit.

    Had been given permission by a friend on a smallish farm. He was very good about showing me the land and explaining exactly what I was and was not allowed to do, where and when. Stalked it fairly regularly, had a few deer off it. All good and happy.

    Then one morning walking back to the car, was confronted by two very angry guys, one with a pair of alsatians. Who are you and what do you think you're doing? They demanded - real agression and menace.

    Somehow calmed them down and explained. It then became apparent that they were part of a neighbouring syndicate who'd got used to the fact that non-one shot the land I was on, and liked it that way. They tried very hard to intimidate me into admitting that I had no right to the land I was on, and even claimed that they had evidence that I'd been on thier land (which I hadn't).

    Stood my ground, showed them permission and even offered to call the land owner and the police to come resolve the situation. They finally bottled and backed down.

    On discussion with the farmer later that morning, he laughed and said that that syndicate had been trouble for years, and were known for intimidation and bluff to get thier way. And that they really didn't like the fact that they'd put too much pressure on thier ground, so the deer had largely shifted onto neighbouring land.

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