Importing expanding bullets

I'm afraid I'm going to show my naivety here... but... are expanding missiles really still "prohibited" items when you have the exemption from that "prohibition" that the conditions of a deer stalker's of vermin controller's FAC should include?
 
Its an interesting thread this and if the law is according to BASC then I also have a local shop who ask if I want expanding bullets written on my ticket and huff a bit if you say yes as they have to use some expensive biro ink to fill it in. I'm also someone who has ordered from cliffs and the only thing I will say is he does customs declarations in a way that doesn't hide what they are by listing in my case sierra part numbers, but it certainly doesn't describe them as expanding bullets.
My understanding was as it was legal to send them from abroad once they hit my hands then I had the permission to posess, If thats wrong then so be it. As for the usage issue I've never had it mentioned but would happily show a press and all the associated gubbins that clutters up half my shed and back it up with receipts and empty boxes.

Yes you are authorised to possess on arrival in uk so long as you have the right calibre and qty on you. However the requirements of customs stem from import requirements. Yes it's pointless as you could smuggle in effect ie not declare them and you are protected by your FAC in terms of possession. But I would recommend getting caught.

As for sending them from abroad that is contrary to import laws. Any controlled item coming in unaccompanied via carrier or post etc should only come in with an import licence.
 
as i stated in my reply to importing expanding bullets whats the problem with puting them on your fac yourself cant see a problem with this it helps with your renewal. if you dont want to put them on your fac dont its your choice.as for geting customs involved you are allowed to import your own bullets of the calibers on your fac . the customs guy told me the first time i went through the red channel with expanding bullets do you have expanding on you fac yes i do - do you only have the calibers on your fac yes well why are you declaring them you dont need to . ( as usual this thread has turned in to a slanging match)

Its called debate and just because a customs bod waived formal process doesn't mean it's ok to do what you want or neglect the policy. We shooters should be squeaky clean and follow protocol however silly it may seem.

when handguns were banned shooters complied begrudgingly with the law and handed their guns in peacefully. Fox hunters on the other hand got out of hand rapidly which made them and their plight very unpopular very quickly by doing things like invading parliament (Otis ferry) or dumping dead horses near the Labour Party conference to name two incidents. We have a hard enough time as it is, don't be tempted to ignore the processes by which our sport is governed, it takes away what little currency towards getting laws changed for the better.
 
rewind this a bit. If expanding bullets are sent to you though from another country and arrive addressed to you where are the problems? There is no provision in law that restricts the movement of these items if they enter our postal system from abroad as I read it.

The only question is what to do when they arrive?
 
Page 4 number 8 would appear to exempt component parts from requiring an import license, but its so clearly written that it could be interpreted in any number of ways, Paul I'd suggest once they are here you put them in your safe and thats it, same as when I buy locally they don't get entered and they get put away. Fortunately as reloading is getting more popular cost wise its now not really worth ordering abroad but if I was going to the US on holiday I would definitely bring back my full allocation.


http://www.bis.gov.uk/assets/BISCore/international-trade-investment-and-development/docs/N/notice-to-importers-2815-licensing-firearms-ammunition-2012.pdf
 
rewind this a bit. If expanding bullets are sent to you though from another country and arrive addressed to you where are the problems? There is no provision in law that restricts the movement of these items if they enter our postal system from abroad as I read it.

The only question is what to do when they arrive?

break apart firearms law and that of export laws.

if you import by whatever means a controlled item under the firearms acts without authority then you break the law - so if you import by plane, ferry or channel tunnel train; any controlled item possesed at that time without lawful authority becoems a criminal matter and a breach of import legislation and that is the point at which customs can nab you.

If you have an FAC authority for the item you bring in - so in the case of expanding ammo the imported goods must be of a quantity and calibre authorised by your FAC. This means that the possession is not unlawful; however you will have breached import laws if you have them sent mail order.

All controlled items sent into the UK i.e. they are not in your baggage such as when returning from holiday, those unnacompanied products require an import licence. The only exemption is the personal effects waiver which allows you to bring controlled items back in your hold luggage so long as you are on the plane at the time. You must always declare the items at customs.
 
Page 4 number 8 would appear to exempt component parts from requiring an import license, but its so clearly written that it could be interpreted in any number of ways, Paul I'd suggest once they are here you put them in your safe and thats it, same as when I buy locally they don't get entered and they get put away. Fortunately as reloading is getting more popular cost wise its now not really worth ordering abroad but if I was going to the US on holiday I would definitely bring back my full allocation.


http://www.bis.gov.uk/assets/BISCor...s-2815-licensing-firearms-ammunition-2012.pdf

NO - this guidance is weak - see this - http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/s...rohibited-restricted/firearms.pdf?view=Binary

All section 5 items including expanding ammuniiton require import documents if not accompanied by the certificate holder i.e. if they are on the plane or ferry with the goods in their hold luggage. I have alerted BIS that their notice to exporters is wrong as they have only taken into account empty cases and solid bullets.
 
NO - this guidance is weak - see this - http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/s...rohibited-restricted/firearms.pdf?view=Binary

All section 5 items including expanding ammuniiton require import documents if not accompanied by the certificate holder i.e. if they are on the plane or ferry with the goods in their hold luggage. I have alerted BIS that their notice to exporters is wrong as they have only taken into account empty cases and solid bullets.


you'll have to point me in the direction of where in there it says anything about expanding bullets and personal importation by someone with a right to posses in the UK as I sure can't find anything.

Interestingly though sounds like Amax are fine and V max aren't
 
"Interestingly though sounds like Amax are fine and V max aren't"

Where have you been hiding al4x1, this has been debated dozens of times on this site.:lol:
A-max are classed as non expanding and V-max are classed as expanding.
 
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"Interestingly though sounds like Amax are fine and V max aren't"

Where have you been hiding al4x1, this has been debated dozens of times on this site.:lol:


We haven't done an "Are A-max expanding bullets and suitable for game, or not" thread for.... let me just check my stopwatch :D

I mean, we know A-max bullets are suitable for target shooting because, as bullets, they were not "designed" to expand... but?

This's a bit like those who question monotheistic belief... is there "really" only one designer of a loaded round? :lol: .... such heresay

And... is that particular "wording" even anything a shooter of animals needs to be concerned with??? :coat:
 
"We haven't done an "Are A-max expanding bullets and suitable for game, or not" thread for.... let me just check my stopwatch" :D

Come on Tamus it's been at least a week since this old subject last raised it's ugly head. :doh:
 
"Interestingly though sounds like Amax are fine and V max aren't"

Where have you been hiding al4x1, this has been debated dozens of times on this site.:lol:
A-max are classed as non expanding and V-max are classed as expanding.

I know it was just the comedy quality on this thread where from a customs official looking at a bullet while undergoing inspection what is he going to think looking at it? Bearing in mind no idea of the behind the scenes issues of Amax Vmax how many officials can tell expanding from non expanding, the simple fact is cliffs exporting shed loads of them to the UK and to date I haven't heard of anyone pulled up.
In my experience though I will concede it is in exports that goods even those requiring a license get sent every day, in our case the main issue is the USA who like an import license for most things under the sun. If there is an issue then customs hold the goods till the license is produced, usually its just a case of fill the form in submit it and job done. I'd suggest that would be the worst case scenario here and if the form wasn't filled in then the goods would be either returned to the sender or destroyed.
 
Good point about customs not being able to tell the differance under x-ray machines. In fact no one can tell the difference other than by the markings on the box.

Customs both sides of the Atlantic are a nightmare. They both seem to stop harmless and perfectly legal items for no apparent reason sometimes and yet illegal items slip through regularly, or so I am told.
 
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NO - this guidance is weak - see this - http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/s...rohibited-restricted/firearms.pdf?view=Binary

All section 5 items including expanding ammuniiton require import documents if not accompanied by the certificate holder i.e. if they are on the plane or ferry with the goods in their hold luggage. I have alerted BIS that their notice to exporters is wrong as they have only taken into account empty cases and solid bullets.

I can't see any reference to controls on ammunition or 'bullets' as component parts for making ammunition in that document but perhaps I missed it?. I have read import related documents online with some relating to components of a firearm, propellents and explosives but can find no restrictions written into law that apply to the importing or shipping to the UK from non EU countries of 'expanding' bullets?? There are restrictions for the sale or transer including carriage from point to point that specifically apply within the UK but nothing I can see that applies outside of the domestic rules?. Those restrictions I have no doubt about concerning the transfer to an RFD and then onto to certificate holder. Can you point me to the specific information on rules for importing expanding gear and how to get a license for importing expanding bullets thanks
 
I find it really interesting the advice from the people who issue the Licenses is claimed to be incorrect, but its a simple form which they specifically mention isn't for personal import of ammunition components one could be forgiven for taking the official advice and not questioning it.
 
To me it seems quite simple, Section 5 firearms and ammunition need a BIS import licence, the firearms act classifies expanding projectiles the same as ammunition assembled with expanding projectiles, so therefore a BIS import licence is required for expanding bullets, its a no-brainer.
All i can say to those who have successfully brought in expanding bullets from abroad you are lucky you have got away with it.
As for Cliff, IMO he is sailing very close to the wind with his activities and when the state department catch up with him, he wont be a very happy man.

Ian.
 
Honestly I'd sort out an import license if that's all I need to do, in fact if I could sort that kind of stuff I'd go all the way and do powders too. And don't worry I'm aware of the hassle with storage, getting an RFD ticket etc etc

Just point me to the 'how to' page for the relevent licenses.
 
I can't see any reference to controls on ammunition or 'bullets' as component parts for making ammunition in that document but perhaps I missed it?. I have read import related documents online with some relating to components of a firearm, propellents and explosives but can find no restrictions written into law that apply to the importing or shipping to the UK from non EU countries of 'expanding' bullets?? There are restrictions for the sale or transer including carriage from point to point that specifically apply within the UK but nothing I can see that applies outside of the domestic rules?. Those restrictions I have no doubt about concerning the transfer to an RFD and then onto to certificate holder. Can you point me to the specific information on rules for importing expanding gear and how to get a license for importing expanding bullets thanks

The bit about Section 5 items, you have to read the guidance carefully as it does not spell it out in laymans terms. it has a structure all of its own.
 
it only referred to s5 weapons and components of these weapons and not ammo and in legal terms the 'stucture' as you put it (assumptions?) does not include ammo which I assume therefore is another area entirely. Can you point to the bit that I needed put in laymans terms so I can get it translated into jockanese. The links to the relevent license information would be much appreciated also.

Unfortunately, another document was issued recently though that confirms you do require a license closing any previous loophole.. http://www.bis.gov.uk/assets/BISCor...s-2815-licensing-firearms-ammunition-2012.pdf

But with a license (apply for ILB1)... it's all good!

http://www.bis.gov.uk/policies/trade-policy-unit/importing-into-uk/import-licensing-forms
 
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