Requirements in a Stalking dog

Stringer

Well-Known Member
I have kept back a puppy from my litter of labs (picked by my wife originally for rough shooting) and I am toying with the idea of training her as a stalking companion. I have read a couple of books on the subject but before I start training just wondered what you guys that have dogs, require of the finished article.

I may ask some more questions as the thread progresses but for now would appreciate your thoughts on how I shoud progress.

Just had a thought - is the fact she's yellow a handicap?
 
I expect a deer dog to have basic obedience, sit,stay,walk to heal.
The dog needs to be able to track at a steady pace on a long lead a trail at least 24 hours old.
A Lab size dog should be able to pull down a roe ,fallow doe, fallow fawn if its not possible to get a shot at the wounded deer.
The colour of the dog is immaterial.
 
Thanks for the reply, this is along the lines I was thinking.

I meant would her colour make her too conspicuous? not that it would affect her ability :lol: :lol:
 
The consensus for wildfowling dogs is that a yellow blends in far more than a black. Much less contrast with the surroundings. Look at an old photo of a stalking party...the guy in the soggy Barbour (almost black when wet) sticks out far more than the guy in the light coloured tweeds.

I don't know if you're in the Highlands, but come here after the heather has finished and most of the countryside is the same colour as a yellow lab anyway!
 
Not in the highlands but a fair bit of heather on my stalking ground. ok so colour no an issue

Any more thoughts on the finished all round stalking dog?
 
A good dog for deer stalking must be quiet no whinning and fidgeting. Patience is also a vital part of a deer dogs make up. You must have the basic sit, stay, in place before you go anywhere else.

Colour does play a part as deer see in black and white so light coloured dogs are not the first choice for many people.

Much depends on the dogs overall temperment. Most breeds of gundog will track deer and game. But only the right ones will become a good dog for deer stalking.
 
Hi Stringer,

There is a lot of rubbish spoken about colour and it comes up a lot when I train handlers. The truth is it doesn’t mater a damn what colour your dog is and I have never known it make a difference in thirty years of training deer dogs. The deer’s primary senses are smell and hearing, stay clear of these and you wont go far wrong, vision is primarily movement orientated. I did however have a guy many years ago lose all faith in his HPR over time because some ‘expert’ kept telling him that it had far too much white to ever be any use with deer. The dog ended up re-homed and not surprisingly with a new handler, not prone to wives tales , he excelled, which incidentally he was always going to do even if he had been pink and yellow stripes, Dave’s comment is so true..
Funnily enough one thought that does relates to colour and I have mentioned it in other posts is the darker the pigment in the olfactory areas the more efficient the dog at scent discrimination.
As for what is required of the dog every one else has it covered, steadiness and motivation to work. If a dog has these then no matter what the breed, it will track.

Mark www.paintandpins.com
 
Unfortunately colour does seem to make a difference in Labs, The Chocolate colour does not seem to have anywhere near the working ability of either Black or Yellow and some have persisted with Labs of this colour but still get a much higher failure rate.
 
I think stringer was concerned about his dog being visible to the deer not about its working ability and in that sense colour dose not matter unless you want to get close enough to club them to death and even then having had our house buck waltz past me six foot away the other night when I was stood in my garden in an white tshirt I’m not to sure it even would then,(I‘ll stick some pics of him on the site soon).
Many choc lab owners would argue that their dogs are equal to any other colour and if there is a difference it could be down to other factors such as breeding. Chocs are not most peoples first choice so dose the working ability get developed through selective breeding to the same extent as the popular colours? probably not, they haven’t developed in line with the modern working black or yellow lab lines. What ever the reason I am sure the colour has nothing to do with it, its just a pigment.
 
Two of my best deer ladb have been yellow.

It makes no difference , as said before a good dog can be any colour!!

Get the basics done, sitting, staying , walking at heal, get the dog working to hand signals.

I would concentrate with the basics first and there are plenty of knowledgable dog folks on this site, never be scared to ask.
 
Well thats me buggered then, regarding colour !! I have a Large Munsterlander , but as deer n dogs alledgedly see in black n white n greys , I deem her invisible!!. Its just her movement that gives her away!!. Still working on the HEEL, and SIT N STAY , also Recall , I sometimes have a dog gone mad :lol: . But that is my problem . Stone has a black lab and others on the site , they crack on and do the job. I wouldnt' worry at all , Just enjoy the experience of Training, in my limited experience its the trainer that , needs training , your dog will have all its natural abilities endowed already!! ;)
Good luck .
Regards Trapper
 
Thanks for the replies all. Plenty there for me to think about. I'll try and get some photos up and some notes/questions on her progress

Cheers

Stephen
 
Animals see in contrast the same as we do just not in glorious technicolour, movement and our brains pick it up. The deer are no different so even if your dog had a camo coat on and its moving..........the deer will see it and then try and scent or hear. These are its main "danger" senses.

Hence training so it stops when you do, not a word spoken! Don't do this type of training in a clean area you need to find somewhere with scent and lots of it a rabbit pen for example. If it wont sit, walk to heal and stop in a controlled environment then it aint never going to do it in the field. Gun dog trainers always say " its first day on real game on a shoot day is the best the dog is ever going to be". Yes it will improve with experience but control thats the best you will ever get. Thirty years with dogs and I have found that saying to be true.

Above all have fun the more you have the better the dog you will have. There will be big up with downs when training keep at it. Twelve to eighteen months training is a lot better than ten years of shouting their name accross the countryside or always leaving it in the car!
 
Above all have fun the more you have the better the dog you will have. There will be big up with downs when training keep at it. Twelve to eighteen months training is a lot better than ten years of shouting their name accross the countryside or always leaving it in the car!

cant agree more mark if your not enjoying it dont do it as the dog will pick up on this, ive a GSP im having teach me" the ropes she is 15 months old and on the whole were doing ok good days and bad but even on the bad ones its still good to be out with her watching her work
all the best
jimmy
 
Hi Jimmy,

GSP are great dogs I have a ten year old. Unfortunately he cannot work any more due to ill health. His mind is still very willing but his body cannot cope, he will push till he is in so much pain he yelps its heart breaking to watch.......dry my eyes......and move on quickly. Like you say they are amazing to watch hunting so cleaver with it to.
One thing I have found and others say a plenty that also have GSP's they are such a loyal one owner dog you do need get her confidence that you know best and in training...... "christ boss/dad knows where all the scent is/birds/animals are to flush and find" she will then stay close, if not she will decide your a great boss/dad but a crap hunter and will for ever want to hunt at distance, and I meeeeeeen distance.........1/2 a mile away would not be unusual its a GSP trait. Get it right and you will have years of endless fun with her.

Note: If you ever loose her go back to last the place you were with her and she will either be there or will return mine did this a lot and I have seen it in plenty of other GSP's.
Hope I am not preaching to the converted. All the best Mark
 
not preaching at all mark its nice to hear anyone elses experiences ive always said i can learn something from anyone, sorry to hear about ya old boy, as for pushing away ive no chance of that happening as ive tried to get her to do it on the partridge with no result she's always within shot "ideal rough shooters dog i guess" think i screwed her down to much as a pup after talking to people on breed spercific forums. but for stalking she coming on great walks close, a gentle hiss and she comes to heal sitting if i stop, i couldnt ask for a better mate than her
all the best
jimmy
 
I have kept back a puppy from my litter of labs (picked by my wife originally for rough shooting) and I am toying with the idea of training her as a stalking companion. I have read a couple of books on the subject but before I start training just wondered what you guys that have dogs, require of the finished article.

I may ask some more questions as the thread progresses but for now would appreciate your thoughts on how I shoud progress.

Just had a thought - is the fact she's yellow a handicap?

THe BDS are having a training day on Sept 24 and an advanced day on Sept 25 near Newbury, a hell of a long way from you.
But the danish teacher is bringing his deertrained labrador for demonstations. Sounds to me the ideal man for advice; after all what is one very long day if it produces 10 years of pleasure.
 
THe BDS are having a training day on Sept 24 and an advanced day on Sept 25 near Newbury, a hell of a long way from you.
But the danish teacher is bringing his deertrained labrador for demonstations. Sounds to me the ideal man for advice; after all what is one very long day if it produces 10 years of pleasure.
agreed this labrador is one of the best deer dogs i have seen, it also has the ability to pull Roe down, Kim has his hanovenian for use on reds and boar, it holds them at bay.
 
Opposible thumb, then it can squeeze the trigger;)

Then again, you might be asking what's good for a dog, in Stalking.......

Stan
 
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