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Thread: Fed up to hear: NO! I ALREADY HAVE SOME ONE!

  1. #1

    Fed up to hear: NO! I ALREADY HAVE SOME ONE!

    Over the past 4 years I tried talking to about 9 farm and land owners in the south east to get permission to shoot foxes (nevermind deer!), same answer from all owners: No I already have someone managing vermin/foxes on my land!
    If it really is that difficult to obtain permission to shoot, how do you guys get to keep your rifles and not lose them when it`s time for FAC renewal?! Never mind trying to get an open ticket for a beginner like me??!!
    I also browsed the web and this site for Syndicates to join and read posts like: The queue to join a decent syndicate starts from Surry and ends somewhere up north in Scotland!
    After spending all my savings on a rifle, I`m wondering if I made a mistake and should have just stuck to the accompanied stalks using the estate rifles?!

  2. #2
    don't give up

    most stuff goes by word of mouth

    PM on way

  3. #3
    As above dont give up, i think ive tried 209 farms, but about 2 years ago i had a call from a landowner to sort out his deer problem, its not a big farm, but ive shot about 30 roe/muntjac of it( with a good number still there) free of charge,and i get to keep the carcass, and it wasnt one of the farms that i tried, i was recommended to him by another farmer,

    Also get talking to some local gamekeepers, help out with beating, lamping, etc, this is the way i do anyway, with good sucsess

  4. #4
    It does take time, there can be a lot of trust involved, imagine if someone you never met came and asked you if they could discharge firearms in your back garden, I think we would all think twice, sometimes you strike lucky, but I know for one, it took me about 3 years to find my first permission for deer, I've held a shotgun certificate for about 10 years now and still don't have any rough game shooting, I have a small amount I can shoot pigeons on but that's it. As has been said by others in previous posts once you get the first, likely as not more will follow, neighbouring land owners etc, be patient mate.

  5. #5
    Hi Sam355,

    Turning up at Farmer's doors is never a good thing. You may get lucky and get offered the chance to lamp on their land but 99% of the time they will simply say "thanks, but no thanks". There are lots of reason why they say no, they may already lamp/stalk the farm themselves which they enjoy and don't want someone taking that away from them or they have someone already doing the pest control for them. The other reason for a straight out No is down to trust. You've just turned up at his door and asked to wander around his land with a high powered rifle at night. If he lets you do this he is taking a big risk given that he doesn't know you, you could turn up on the first night with 3 trucks and 5 mates and drive all over his farm without any understanding of what to shoot and where to drive and not drive. You could drive all over crops and before he knows it your mates are turning up without you. If the farmer allows you to shoot on the land and then you turn out to be a bad apple (I'm sure you're not) and the police turn up due to an accident or something else then he is the one who will have to answer questions and if he is a tenant farmer he could end up in front of the landowner having to explain why he allowed you to shoot on his land. He could end up having to justify his own FAC to the police due to an accident.

    In order for you to get permission you need to show the farmer or landowner that you are serious and trustworthy. You can do this in two ways, find out who is managing their land and ask to go out with them. They will then see first hand whether you know your stuff and are trustworthy and this could result in you working alongside this chap on a number of farms getting lots of shooting and stalking in. You'll then get to meet the farmers and if the other pest manager decides to retire or move then you are in line to take over. The other is to get to know the farmer. Do you have a friend who can introduce you to the farmer instead of just turning up. That way the farmer is meeting you through a person who he already know and therefore is more likely to hear what you have to say and not just shut the door in your face.

    Hope this is of some help.

  6. #6
    Sam, just approach the search for land as a business marketing campaign.
    It is all about personal relationships, introductions, recommendations and building trust.
    A good way into getting land, for example, is to built a relationship with a farm that has a retail shop on site to sells their produce. Established yourself as a regular good customer paying good money (cash is best) for their produce and come in regularly so they get to know you. Through the usual smalltalk establish who is in charge and find out their names. Built a relationship of trust. Then do your background research into the land and farm and access etc using various internet resources and mapping sites.
    Then, and only then, mention about the rabbits/foxes/deer/pigeons you always spot on their land, how much damage they must do, how much money they must loose, and casually mention you do a bit of shooting and that you would love to help them out keeping their vermin under control. Once they have said 'Yes, ok than' as it will be difficult for them to refuse a good trusted local customer) make sure you draft a permission letter so they just have to sign it, deliver the letter by hand and wait for them to sign it and hand it back to you. Quote insurance/H&S reasons for the written permission requirement.
    Don't even mention the deer yet - at this point we are looking at rabbits, pigeons and maybe foxes.
    Once you have been on a farm for a few years and have shown your commitment and have results, only than could you try to add deer to your list. Most landowners/farmers are very secretive and protective of the deer so don't expect to get deer shooting permission just like that.
    And once you are established on a farm you are likely to be introduced to the neighbouring farmers and things can start rolling from there.

    Other methods, some or all you can do concurrently with the above suggestion:

    1. Simply pay for a shooting lease. Generally a lot.
    2. Network and befriend other stalkers to get invitations and more experience, offer to help but not shoot. The shooting bit will come later.
    3. Join a beaters team of a local shoot and you will be surprised by the amount of people you meet, in particular under the beaters, who are often very much more advanced and experienced with guns and rifles than the 'guns' of the shoot. Making friends there will open many doors for you, eventually.
    4. Join a target/rifle club where you can use your deer rifle. The practice and range where you can check your zero under controlled conditions is always useful and again it offers many networking opportunities.
    5. Enroll on courses (DSC1, LANTRA) as you meet like minded people who will offer you opportunities, and the paper qualifications also help when asking for permission. In fact in many cases you need qualifications now before the landowner will even talk to you.

    Just be aware that a hard-won permission can be easily lost if you show no results, don't show up, do things against their wishes and bring other people on the land without their specific permission. Some permissions you can loose simply because someone else puts lots of cash on the table. So don't put all your chickens in one basket.

    Good luck - if you show tenacity you will get those permissions!

  7. #7
    From the perspective of a landowner.... I wouldn't want someone I don't know from Adam wondering around my place at night with a firearm. You need to start with shooting pigeons or rabbits during the day, then say you'd like to have a go at the rats too. Once you've built up a raport tell him you wouldn't mind having a mooch at night after foxes.

    Be honest, farmers like honesty... don't make it sound like you're doing him a favour because you're not.
    Don't tell him you can sort his pigeon problem cos you can't, it's impossible...
    Say "I'm after some shooting permission if there's any going" Don't feed him a pile of crap like "I've noticed you have a problem with rabbits eating crops" he will already know that and he will know that his yeild is the least of your concern, you just want some shooting.
    "It's halfway down the hill, directly below that tree next to a rock that looks like a bell-end"

    Good deals with ~ deako ~ sakowsm ~ dryan ~ 2734neil ~ mo ~ riggers ~ mmbeatle ~ seanct ~ an du ru fox

  8. #8
    First join a rifle club if you haven't already done so, this should secure your position regarding your FAC & rifles. Regarding somewhere to shoot either buy a lease if lucky and rich enough or join a team of beaters/ helpers on some shoots. The latter in time will open a lot of doors for you. atb Tim

  9. #9
    I think Timing helps and if the farmer really has some one then the correct thing is to walk away. Go to a sheep farm in Jan -Feb Time this is when they are worrying about lambs go to a crop farm just as the barley wheat etc is starting to ripen tell them you will sort out pigeon etc. Farms work normally on what is happening at the time and what is being a problem at the moment or very near future. If you go at the end of April to ask about fox shooting expect to get told to clear off. Think before you go dress appropriately and listen to the boys that have a lot of land and spend no money getting it.
    PS if you want shooting then contact all the local woodland companies certainly Scotland has more than enough for all.

  10. #10
    Im afraid its getting more and more popular.
    more and more new hunters trying to get land
    to shoot over.

    There is enough for all, but its not evenly distributed.
    supply and demand will mean you will have to pay a premium
    for shooting unless you are lucky.

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