best all rounder for beginner

I know you were not asking me, but put it this way, if you were to try to commit suicide, would you walk in front of a car travelling 30mph or a passing through train at 80mph!...sorry for the gruesome analogy! LOL

:rofl: You got a point but maybe a tad exagerated!
 
I would stick to

K eep
I t
S imple
S tupid

Works for me!

You've used a 243 before and for the fact you killed foxes with it, tells me that you could accurately kill roe & red. Why not stick to 243? Absolutely nothing wrong with it and it'll knock anything in the UK over, as long as you put the bullet in the right place. Unless you are into Ballistics, twists, etc etc etc. Then buy something simple, that FITS! Make sure the scope isn't too high set, the trigger is right for you and you feel comfortable holding it prone, standing sitting etc.
If you go for a 243, find out what your local RFD stocks. Personally I would go for Norma 100g in 243. Legal for all deer in the UK, kills everything from a rabbit to a big red stag.
Rifle and scope, depending on budget buy simple buy as good a quality as possible, don't feel the need to spend extra on gadgets. a fixed 6x42 is plenty. You'll pick up a decent s/h pecar or s&b quite easily.
You often see deals from weatherby, savage where you get the full set up, maybe worth investigating, I would imagine the triggers might need a bit of working, other than that, they will kill deer.

Good luck
 
I'd say the same you have to look at what you will be shooting and the Roe are no issue and reds well there are reds and reds the odds on most of yours being large stags I would suggest is slim. I'd stick with what you have and get started and go from there, its easy to put in for something else if you want to later on. Odds are though if its a gun you use for foxing a fair bit then you will be fine on the important bit which is putting the bullet in the right place, the main thing though is get your bullet choice right something reasonably tough and not too explosive is ideal. I put 85 grain sierra soft points through mine and they work well on deer and really seem to make a mess of foxes.
 
There is too much talk at times about which chambering or calibre is better than the next, and in accordance with the above posts if folk took time to read some ballistic charts they would see there is so little in it at stalking distances to not matter a jot.
.

Thank you!
I have been banging that drum for too long when people talk about "flat calibres"!

anything between 6-8mm will do the job on anything you point at in the UK.
 
I know you were not asking me, but put it this way, if you were to try to commit suicide, would you walk in front of a car travelling 30mph or a passing through train at 80mph!...sorry for the gruesome analogy! LOL

The train...

if it was only a half hearted attempt and it was made of cotton wool and marshmallow...

You have to think outside the box at times PKL... :lol:

Remember size of bore does not always equate to most energy.
 
p.s. Do get out & do a bit of practice before you do your Level 1. You'll have enough to think about with all the rest of the course without worrying about the shooting part!
Spot-on advice. Ideally get some feel for the shooting test c/o competition (it simulates the stress level) involving a course of fire similar to that of the L1 requirement. The BSRC “Stalkers Test” being a case in point as in 2 shots prone, 2 sitting, 2 kneeling, 2 standing and 2 from a simulated high seat. You should arrive at the target on the day of test knowing both you and the rifle can do it. Good luck.

Cheers

K
 
Spot-on advice. Ideally get some feel for the shooting test c/o competition (it simulates the stress level) involving a course of fire similar to that of the L1 requirement. The BSRC “Stalkers Test” being a case in point as in 2 shots prone, 2 sitting, 2 kneeling, 2 standing and 2 from a simulated high seat. You should arrive at the target on the day of test knowing both you and the rifle can do it. Good luck.

Cheers

K

Good advice, if you have put 100 rounds in the right place during practice then you will have the confidence in your kit when you arrive at the test.
 
In Andrew Yools study he recorded a greater proportion of runners when roe were chest shot with 222 and 243 Winchester rifles compared with the 308, 7mm and 270 's
If roe have a greater tendency to run after being shot by a 243 then it is reasonable to assume that the effect would be magnified on larger bodied deer. To me it is common sense to use the largest rifle that can be shot comfortably. Accuracy will always be paramount and there is no doubt that the 243 will kill deer BUT that was not the question. The question asked what the best calibre was for multiple deer species. To my mind providing accuracy does not suffer that a 270 or 308 would be more appropriate for large bodied deer.
 
The .243 you use is legal for all deer species and will kill them all if you are accurate enough.

Simon

This is the critical point.

The OP asked for a recommendation on the best 'all-round' calibre for a beginner. The licensing system distorts this because the .243 has acquired 'holy writ' status. Because it's the bare minimum it's the easiest to acquire when starting out.

My feeling is that .243 isn't a calibre for novices. It will kill all species if you hit the base of neck or atlas joint, but that isn't a reliable point of aim for anyone. Nor are head shots unless head-on head-down when feeding IMO. Those starting out tend to be a bit excitable at the crucial moment. Marksmanship needs practice outside a comfortable rested position on a firing range, when you fool yourself about your real ability.

On a broadside shot the .243 is limited. It will not reliably drop a heavier species than Roe if it's winded you. Alternatively it can work spectacularly most of the time if the quarry is unaware of you. It's not 100% reliable, but no calibre is.

After a bit of time doing this I think the train of licensing for 'quarry use' is skewed in the wrong direction. When starting out as an apprentice the humane choice is to pick something outside the FLD tick box of .243 ... such as .270 or 7mm up that will compensate for most aiming errors on the body outline. Nothing will help if there's a serious mistake like a gut shot or a hindquarters hit.
 
In Andrew Yools study he recorded a greater proportion of runners when roe were chest shot with 222 and 243 Winchester rifles compared with the 308, 7mm and 270 's
If roe have a greater tendency to run after being shot by a 243 then it is reasonable to assume that the effect would be magnified on larger bodied deer. To me it is common sense to use the largest rifle that can be shot comfortably. Accuracy will always be paramount and there is no doubt that the 243 will kill deer BUT that was not the question. The question asked what the best calibre was for multiple deer species. To my mind providing accuracy does not suffer that a 270 or 308 would be more appropriate for large bodied deer.

No offence, but Andrew Yules study was not a study, it was a series of field notes taken by someone who always advocated large calibers. It was pretty ****?
There are plenty people on here who shoot Roe with 22 centre fires with no ill effect [other than to the deer!] as well as many shooting red, sika , fallow with 243, again with no problems. I am happy to go along with that collective knowledge and experience and advocate the 243 as a suitable all round deer rifle.
Lets not go into the murky depths of whats the best killing caliber, they all do it.
My rationale behind keeping to a 243, is that he has already used one to good effect, therefore starts the whole process with a level of confidence, which is key.
 
This is the critical point.

The OP asked for a recommendation on the best 'all-round' calibre for a beginner. The licensing system distorts this because the .243 has acquired 'holy writ' status. Because it's the bare minimum it's the easiest to acquire when starting out.

My feeling is that .243 isn't a calibre for novices. It will kill all species if you hit the base of neck or atlas joint, but that isn't a reliable point of aim for anyone. Nor are head shots unless head-on head-down when feeding IMO. Those starting out tend to be a bit excitable at the crucial moment. Marksmanship needs practice outside a comfortable rested position on a firing range, when you fool yourself about your real ability.

On a broadside shot the .243 is limited. It will not reliably drop a heavier species than Roe if it's winded you. Alternatively it can work spectacularly most of the time if the quarry is unaware of you. It's not 100% reliable, but no calibre is.

After a bit of time doing this I think the train of licensing for 'quarry use' is skewed in the wrong direction. When starting out as an apprentice the humane choice is to pick something outside the FLD tick box of .243 ... such as .270 or 7mm up that will compensate for most aiming errors on the body outline. Nothing will help if there's a serious mistake like a gut shot or a hindquarters hit.

I have both 243 & 270 , I have used the latter most as well as a raft of other calibers. The 243 is certainly not limited, if it were, it wouldn't be used! A 375 in the gut is as bad as a 22, the secret is NOT to put it in the gut.
Take note of well known [not just nae biddies like me] stalkers such as the late Lee Mcnally who was a great advocate of the 243.
No matter what rifle you choose, accurate shooting and knowledge of deer anotomy are key.

I will stick to me guns and still advocate 243 [or whatever caliber the op is comfortable with.]
 
I have both 243 & 270 , I have used the latter most as well as a raft of other calibers. The 243 is certainly not limited, if it were, it wouldn't be used! A 375 in the gut is as bad as a 22, the secret is NOT to put it in the gut.
Take note of well known [not just nae biddies like me] stalkers such as the late Lee Mcnally who was a great advocate of the 243.
No matter what rifle you choose, accurate shooting and knowledge of deer anotomy are key.

I will stick to me guns and still advocate 243 [or whatever caliber the op is comfortable with.]

I agree with this sentiment BS but, if you were visiting an estate without a rifle and there were two on the table giving you the choice for use on red or sika stags, one a 243, the other a 270, identical in all other aspects what one would you pick up?

I have also used a 243 a lot, pluse centre fire 22's, 25-06, 270 and 308.

If a guest turned up on rutting sika stags (I know that is not what the OP was asking, just a point I'm making) with a 243, I would be trying to politely coax them into using my 308.

Having said that, I have used the 243 when owning nothing else and never really given it much thought???
:-| :doh:
 
I agree with this sentiment BS but, if you were visiting an estate without a rifle and there were two on the table giving you the choice for use on red or sika stags, one a 243, the other a 270, identical in all other aspects what one would you pick up?

I have also used a 243 a lot, pluse centre fire 22's, 25-06, 270 and 308.

If a guest turned up on rutting sika stags (I know that is not what the OP was asking, just a point I'm making) with a 243, I would be trying to politely coax them into using my 308.

Having said that, I have used the 243 when owning nothing else and never really given it much thought???
:-| :doh:

I think you have nailed it in the head, when owning nothing else, it worked perfectly fine. In days past, we had very few options of kit, so just got on with it. Now we have everything in every colour size etc x 10!

I remember being delighted in getting a Black and White tv, my kids have never seen one!

I think we get far too bogged down in detail at times, don't get me wrong - I've wasted lots of ££££s on kit I've never needed and replaced guns that were perfectly adequate for the job!

In answer to your Q. I'd pick up the one closest to me :) as I've seen plenty of rutting deer drop to a 243, even Wapiti.
 
I think you have nailed it in the head, when owning nothing else, it worked perfectly fine. In days past, we had very few options of kit, so just got on with it. Now we have everything in every colour size etc x 10!

I remember being delighted in getting a Black and White tv, my kids have never seen one!

I think we get far too bogged down in detail at times, don't get me wrong - I've wasted lots of ££££s on kit I've never needed and replaced guns that were perfectly adequate for the job!

In answer to your Q. I'd pick up the one closest to me :) as I've seen plenty of rutting deer drop to a 243, even Wapiti.

Fair enough BS...

Because if the same choice was there for me between a 243 and a 22-250 for roe or similar size deer, I would take the 22-250 every single time...
 
Some of you "small bore" shooters tend to forget what happens when bullets hit a twig/grass etc. I know it shouldn't happen & it's wrong to deliberately shoot through stuff, but it does happen. Big bullets are less prone to deflections. Plus unlike you, inexperienced folks aren't always perfect shots.
So why advocate something that is marginal? It is only humane to be as certain as possible of doing the deed in the most certain way possible.
For this reason I would recommend something a bit bigger.
You can "underkill" by being under gunned - It's difficult to "overkill" your quary. Respect it!

Ian
 
Hit them where it counts. Job done. Even with a cannon there will always be the teting occasion when a beast decides they are going to take one last look at the Country Club bar lawn before expiring!

An entertaining if not PC thread would be "Stalking Adventures With The 22 Hornet". First contribution from Richard Prior please!
 
Some of you "small bore" shooters tend to forget what happens when bullets hit a twig/grass etc. I know it shouldn't happen & it's wrong to deliberately shoot through stuff, but it does happen. Big bullets are less prone to deflections. Plus unlike you, inexperienced folks aren't always perfect shots.
So why advocate something that is marginal? It is only humane to be as certain as possible of doing the deed in the most certain way possible.
For this reason I would recommend something a bit bigger.
You can "underkill" by being under gunned - It's difficult to "overkill" your quary. Respect it!

Ian


I am inclined to direct you to youtube
some remarkable tests of what does and doesnt happen to soft point and BT bullets deliberately fired through material

not as much as you think when it comes to 100gr plus soft point centrefire rounds

Not suggesting for a minute that I get involved with the usual .243 vs the rest of the 6mm+ world,
a 6mm hole through the heart kills animals in a very similar manner to a 7mm hole in the heart

it does not however deliver the shock of a larger bullet when it slightly missed the heart and slips between lower lobe of lung and liver

Approx 1200 ftlbs at 200yds for a 100gr .243 (MV 2900 fps)
Approx 1900 ftlbs at 200yds for a 180gr .308 (MV 2650 fps) - over 50% more energy at 200yds,
 
Any of the following 6.5x55, 25-06, 7x57, 7-08 .............(the list goes on) will do the job & bambi won't know any difference.
At sensible stalking ranges there's very little trajectory difference between them.

I might also add the 257 Roberts , 260 REM and the 6.5x284 .
 
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