collecting blood

Who knows what a dog smells other than a dog.......
A couple of hundred years of combined experienced on 1000's upon 1000's of tracks on training dogs and knowing what works for training dogs to track.Thats how you learn what is best for a dog to smell.
ALWAYS REPLICATE NATURAL METHODS
Ive yet to see a deer/boar running away with salty blood,unless immersed in salt water and said deer/boar is water skiing after the shot ;) in the sea of course,need that kind of salinity if your immersing blood in salt.....
 
Who knows what a dog smells other than a dog.......
A couple of hundred years of combined experienced on 1000's upon 1000's of tracks on training dogs and knowing what works for training dogs to track.Thats how you learn what is best for a dog to smell.
ALWAYS REPLICATE NATURAL METHODS
Ive yet to see a deer/boar running away with salty blood,unless immersed in salt water and said deer/boar is water skiing after the shot ;) in the sea of course,need that kind of salinity if your immersing blood in salt.....

All fair enough points.... But Im sure i saw Rudoph water skiing the other week:D How do you collect and store the blood which you collect yourself Wolverine?


nutty
 
Couldnt agree more, but the question was why not add anything? As I stated already (and Im not saying your wrong or picking an argument) I have heard many say salt helps stop the clotting especially when its being de-frosted, and you are the 1st Ive heard say use nothing. Remember this is my 1st Deer dog and alot is alien to myself and Im on a steep learning curve. Is there a reason not too or does the salt help??


Nutty

Sorry Nutty, I thought I had answered it by simply saying that clots appear naturally, so why try and stop them?

I can only pass on what I have been told, and Wayne also highlights a good point that we don't actually know what adding salt does to the scent of blood for a dog.

No argument looked for here either mate, just passing on what I have picked up but also basing it on a good few years of training dogs.

here is an example of how scent and the environment alters things. I laid a track on Saturday afternoon for my HS, sika cleaves only over about 600m. There was 3 wound couches, and 2 spots I laid deer hair. there were also 3 gradual turns and 3 sharp 90deg turns. Now she has worked well on tracks 24hrs old but this had added problems for her to work out and to be honest I thought quite a difficult track. She barely indicated one wound couch out of three, walked straight over the first piece of hair and overshot the first 90deg turn. Then on the second half of the track she seemed to speed up a fair bit and I had to gently hold her back as I thought she was going too fast. This track was only 18hrs old but what did occur overnight was a hard frost, on what was already very wet grass but longer at this point and no doubt holding scent better. Frost locks the scent in. She has found tiny pieces of hair before and will generally indicate a wound couch well. Not this time. In other words certain things create easy and difficult scenarios. But in my mind all other factors, like cleave scent only, because that will happen, blood trail with clots because that will happen, hair, bone and so on along the track as well, all natural in a real life scenario. Salt, or any other matter added does not occur naturally. So why add it when pieces of clot and small drops of blood are natural to a real track?

She is only 13 months old so she is still learning, but just when you think it is all going well and easily!!!!

On a plus note, at the very moment she found the hind head lying at the end of the track, the lad who does the vermin on the ground walked wound the corner of the dyke and she didn't half let him know she was a bit wary but barked and stood her ground, so at least it finished on a very positive note!
 
All fair enough points.... But Im sure i saw Rudoph water skiing the other week:D How do you collect and store the blood which you collect yourself Wolverine?


nutty
I don't use blood mannie
Blood is way too easy for a dog.
What do you track if there is no blood present on a track?
Blood is a bonus.
 
Sorry Nutty, I thought I had answered it by simply saying that clots appear naturally, so why try and stop them?

I can only pass on what I have been told, and Wayne also highlights a good point that we don't actually know what adding salt does to the scent of blood for a dog.

No argument looked for here either mate, just passing on what I have picked up but also basing it on a good few years of training dogs.

here is an example of how scent and the environment alters things. I laid a track on Saturday afternoon for my HS, sika cleaves only over about 600m. There was 3 wound couches, and 2 spots I laid deer hair. there were also 3 gradual turns and 3 sharp 90deg turns. Now she has worked well on tracks 24hrs old but this had added problems for her to work out and to be honest I thought quite a difficult track. She barely indicated one wound couch out of three, walked straight over the first piece of hair and overshot the first 90deg turn. Then on the second half of the track she seemed to speed up a fair bit and I had to gently hold her back as I thought she was going too fast. This track was only 18hrs old but what did occur overnight was a hard frost, on what was already very wet grass but longer at this point and no doubt holding scent better. Frost locks the scent in. She has found tiny pieces of hair before and will generally indicate a wound couch well. Not this time. In other words certain things create easy and difficult scenarios. But in my mind all other factors, like cleave scent only, because that will happen, blood trail with clots because that will happen, hair, bone and so on along the track as well, all natural in a real life scenario. Salt, or any other matter added does not occur naturally. So why add it when pieces of clot and small drops of blood are natural to a real track?

She is only 13 months old so she is still learning, but just when you think it is all going well and easily!!!!

On a plus note, at the very moment she found the hind head lying at the end of the track, the lad who does the vermin on the ground walked wound the corner of the dyke and she didn't half let him know she was a bit wary but barked and stood her ground, so at least it finished on a very positive note!
Ahhhh the second best HS in Scotland:evil::rofl:
 
Sorry Nutty, I thought I had answered it by simply saying that clots appear naturally, so why try and stop them?

I can only pass on what I have been told, and Wayne also highlights a good point that we don't actually know what adding salt does to the scent of blood for a dog.

No argument looked for here either mate, just passing on what I have picked up but also basing it on a good few years of training dogs.

here is an example of how scent and the environment alters things. I laid a track on Saturday afternoon for my HS, sika cleaves only over about 600m. There was 3 wound couches, and 2 spots I laid deer hair. there were also 3 gradual turns and 3 sharp 90deg turns. Now she has worked well on tracks 24hrs old but this had added problems for her to work out and to be honest I thought quite a difficult track. She barely indicated one wound couch out of three, walked straight over the first piece of hair and overshot the first 90deg turn. Then on the second half of the track she seemed to speed up a fair bit and I had to gently hold her back as I thought she was going too fast. This track was only 18hrs old but what did occur overnight was a hard frost, on what was already very wet grass but longer at this point and no doubt holding scent better. Frost locks the scent in. She has found tiny pieces of hair before and will generally indicate a wound couch well. Not this time. In other words certain things create easy and difficult scenarios. But in my mind all other factors, like cleave scent only, because that will happen, blood trail with clots because that will happen, hair, bone and so on along the track as well, all natural in a real life scenario. Salt, or any other matter added does not occur naturally. So why add it when pieces of clot and small drops of blood are natural to a real track?

She is only 13 months old so she is still learning, but just when you think it is all going well and easily!!!!

On a plus note, at the very moment she found the hind head lying at the end of the track, the lad who does the vermin on the ground walked wound the corner of the dyke and she didn't half let him know she was a bit wary but barked and stood her ground, so at least it finished on a very positive note!


Again fair points, I thought there may have been another reason thats all.



Nutty
 
So how does the dog know the difference between a wounded deer and a healthy deer??

Nutty
You learn the dog the difference.
Sit him in front of a blackboard and show him the different reaction to shot photos,hey presto,job done;)
Identification of species in summer/winter pelage photos is handy to train Fido for the unwounded ones,then hey presto,1st degree pass,mortar board the whole lot;)
 
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You learn the dog the difference.
Sit him in front of a blackboard and show him the different reaction to shot photos,hey presto,job done;)
Identification of species in summer/winter pelage photos is handy to train Fido for the unwounded ones,then hey presto,1st degree pass,mortar board the whole lot;)


Keep it simple then you say i now need to teach the dog to read??????:coat:
 
there we go again , who has the best ?
again a few on this forum know where they are talking about . well done my friends ,
DRY BLOOD , strange animals in the UK ,how do you juse this by hot weather ?
 
there we go again , who has the best ?
again a few on this forum know where they are talking about . well done my friends ,
DRY BLOOD , strange animals in the UK ,how do you juse this by hot weather ?


Wow strange post!!!!!! Go again where? I honestly havnt a scoobie where your going here!! I asked for the best method or how to collect blood and Ive been given a few pointers, some of which I thought were tounge in cheek and have been taken that way...



Nutty
 
Nutty, Rudi is not referring to you. He's hoping this thread is not going to go the my ways the only way and my dogs better than yours I think.
 
Sertenly not , my dogs are not better ; But for once and for all , why blood ? Since months here on the SD there is been explaned how to juse a dog on trails , scent ,ect and still , looking for other methods . Well there are no other .
Collect blood well , open a carcas ,take a bottle , NO salt , there is your blood ,that easy , put this in the freaser .
 
I don't think it really matters as you can lay a trail with either diluted blood or blood with a little added salt (or both) as blood is quite salty anyway..

While you might be adding other chemicals/ smells, the dog will sort it out and soon pick up what he's meant to be doing.

Why dilute the blood or try to keep it clot free? One, it makes the blood go further in use, but also it will flow better through sprays, droppers or other sorts of dispenser folks some times like to use..

Start a young dog with short trails and a reasonable amount of blood, plus cleave prints if you can..By "reasonable" I mean dribbles and spots, not bucket loads..As the dog gains experience, extend the trail and cut the amount of blood used..

However clever we think we are, we are only crudely simulating something that approximates the trail a wounded deer leaves. Once the dog is going through the motions on man made trails, the very best thing you can do is work him on wounded/shot deer as nothing really compares with actual experience. Again, i would start him off on easy stuff and allow him to build up..
 
I don't think it really matters as you can lay a trail with either diluted blood or blood with a little added salt (or both) as blood is quite salty anyway..

While you might be adding other chemicals/ smells, the dog will sort it out and soon pick up what he's meant to be doing.

Why dilute the blood or try to keep it clot free? One, it makes the blood go further in use, but also it will flow better through sprays, droppers or other sorts of dispenser folks some times like to use..

Start a young dog with short trails and a reasonable amount of blood, plus cleave prints if you can..By "reasonable" I mean dribbles and spots, not bucket loads..As the dog gains experience, extend the trail and cut the amount of blood used..

However clever we think we are, we are only crudely simulating something that approximates the trail a wounded deer leaves. Once the dog is going through the motions on man made trails, the very best thing you can do is work him on wounded/shot deer as nothing really compares with actual experience. Again, i would start him off on easy stuff and allow him to build up..


cheers

nutty
 
Nutty you asked in the op how to stop blood clotting , answer - don't just collect it in whatever you can lumps and all. Then and this is important!!! do not add SALT.
When you need or wish to use it again defrost it put it in a bowl or similar and whisk it , thoroughly that is it even if all you collect is congealed at the time it will whisk up back to a lumpy liquid form and be easy to use. Bottom line is NO SALT NO OTHER CHEMICALS .
Regards Widu.
 
What widu says works a treat, stirring out the clots. I collected a heap of blood to make venison black pudding last year, unless you added loads of salt it didn't seem to stop the blood clotting but a tablespoon of vinegar in a 500ml container helped.

If it were for my dog I would stir it to get the worst of the clots out and then when it comes to thawing it out or using it fresh push it through a seive into my "dispensing" container
 
Nutty you asked in the op how to stop blood clotting , answer - don't just collect it in whatever you can lumps and all. Then and this is important!!! do not add SALT.
When you need or wish to use it again defrost it put it in a bowl or similar and whisk it , thoroughly that is it even if all you collect is congealed at the time it will whisk up back to a lumpy liquid form and be easy to use. Bottom line is NO SALT NO OTHER CHEMICALS .
Regards Widu.

cheers widu simple and effective.

Nutty
 
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