Shotgun misfire

biffo

Well-Known Member
I have an old wm Powell side by side box lock which i have owned without fault for 20years and it has been serviced regularly. Today I had a misfire in the first barrel whereby the cartridge primer had a light strike but did not go off. This happened again and I then fired the cartridge successfully in the second barrel. I do have a local gunsmith that I can use. Before I speak to him do you have any suggestions as to what the problem could be? Pin? Springs? This will help me ensure I get the best service locally.
Many thanks.
 
Almost certainly a spring problem. Not a big issue for a gunsmith. If its a broken pin, you will see the pin is fractured. Was it a different brand / batch of cartridges - some primers can be tougher than others. If so short term fix is to go back to a brand that you know works.
 
Almost certainly a spring problem. Not a big issue for a gunsmith. If its a broken pin, you will see the pin is fractured. Was it a different brand / batch of cartridges - some primers can be tougher than others. If so short term fix is to go back to a brand that you know works.
Thanks, that's very helpful. Same brand of cartridges I have used all season, never had a problem before.
 
Yes. Probably the pin or the spring....

But you brought it on yourself, messing about with shotguns. Just asking for trouble, I tell you.:coat:~Muir
 
It might be worth giving a quick squirt of cleaner/lubricant down the firing pin hole from an aerosol. There may be a bit of grit there.

Also we used a rough and ready test to compare the two firing pin springs. With the gun dismantled and cocked, put a pound coin over the firing pin hold the stock vertical and pull that trigger, then repeat on the other. If there is a noticeable difference the spring is weak.
 
Sometimes the primers are set a little low in the cases. Not uncommon I'm afraid.
Strange that it happened twice in the space of an hour, but then again 2 duff shells from same box could be a Friday afternoon 'lemon' batch. Still, I now don't have the same confidence in the gun, even if the shells were at fault. So I need to get the ok from a gunsmith, I guess. Will try the pound coin trick and see what happens.
 
As Wm Powell are still in business might it not be a good idea to contact them. I found them to be most helpful over the BSA sporting rifle they only retailed.
 
As Wm Powell are still in business might it not be a good idea to contact them. I found them to be most helpful over the BSA sporting rifle they only retailed.
I know they have recently been taken over by Osborne, and have moved to Oxford I think, but I guess they still have a few old boys there. I contacted them when I bought the rifle originally and they sent me a copy of the bill of sale.......from 1872 !!
 
This happened to me on my old Aya yeoman 20 odd years ago. There used to be a gunsmith in Henley - he let me have a new main spring. Quite an easy job to to pop out old spring, file up the new one to fit and then pop it back in. It will generally happen in the right hand barrel as that's the most used. Speak with Francis Lovell over in Witney.
 
Hi Biffo. You have not said whether or not your gun is an ejector - this may affect the repair carried out, depending on the type of mainspring that is used in your shotgun. Having repaired many guns in this situation, there are normally three problems affecting a misfire ( excluding cartridges which are generally not at fault ). First and second as most people will point out are a broken spring or striker. The third problem arising may be a broken sear. To ascertain whether or not you have either of first two problems, try this simple diagnosis. In the gun trade, we employ the '' Penny Test''. Having opened your gun and cocked the action, close it and remove the forend. Next, take off the forend and remove the barrels. Holding the stock and action vertically at waist height, so that the face of the action is facing upwards ( you may want to do this outside rather than knocking holes in your kitchen ceiling ) place a two pence coin over the striker hole and fire the corresponding trigger. If the coin hits the ceiling ( or near enough ) then you should have sufficient blow to fire a cartridge. If the striker nose is not protruding through the action face afterwards, then you know that you will almost certainly need a new ( or repaired hammer ), if the spring is at fault you may still have enough blow to dent the cartridge primer but not fire it. Sometimes, if the sear is broken or the ''bent'' on the hammer is worn, you will get a spongey hammer blow or no lift of the 2p coin. Generally speaking, a new mainspring is a fairly simple job to replace and time. A new hammer, or repaired hammer ( sharp intake of breath ) could ultimately cost more than the resale value of the gun itself. Depending on the ejector system employed, this will also dictate the type of mainspring that will need to be replaced and also the rising costs involved. Until the gun is examined properly it would be unfair to point the finger at one problem - there are few English boxlocks with firing pins and disc set strikers - the vintage of your gun would intimate the standard trade gun with a hammer and its integral striker nose. If you were closer to Worcestershire I could help you more!!! Anyway, you can try the penny test, and you will atleast be able to decide before taking your gun in for repair whether or not it is a spring replacement or hammer/striker repair. What you must remember, is that there are no spare parts for these guns, sat packaged waiting at wholesalers. Any repairs will no doubt be costly as a dealer will no doubt pass this job on to a gunsmith and then add their own profit mark up. Please let me know how you get on? - I hope you able to sort this out swiftly as it is not really a major repair to carry out !! But be warned, it could be costly as the work involved will require a gunsmith ( which may mean your gun is sent to trade worker for repair - incurring costs ) and bench time - it wont just involve swapping replacement packet parts like most modern OU's!!! regards, Jim.
 
Hi Biffo. You have not said whether or not your gun is an ejector - this may affect the repair carried out, depending on the type of mainspring that is used in your shotgun. Having repaired many guns in this situation, there are normally three problems affecting a misfire ( excluding cartridges which are generally not at fault ). First and second as most people will point out are a broken spring or striker. The third problem arising may be a broken sear. To ascertain whether or not you have either of first two problems, try this simple diagnosis. In the gun trade, we employ the '' Penny Test''. Having opened your gun and cocked the action, close it and remove the forend. Next, take off the forend and remove the barrels. Holding the stock and action vertically at waist height, so that the face of the action is facing upwards ( you may want to do this outside rather than knocking holes in your kitchen ceiling ) place a two pence coin over the striker hole and fire the corresponding trigger. If the coin hits the ceiling ( or near enough ) then you should have sufficient blow to fire a cartridge. If the striker nose is not protruding through the action face afterwards, then you know that you will almost certainly need a new ( or repaired hammer ), if the spring is at fault you may still have enough blow to dent the cartridge primer but not fire it. Sometimes, if the sear is broken or the ''bent'' on the hammer is worn, you will get a spongey hammer blow or no lift of the 2p coin. Generally speaking, a new mainspring is a fairly simple job to replace and time. A new hammer, or repaired hammer ( sharp intake of breath ) could ultimately cost more than the resale value of the gun itself. Depending on the ejector system employed, this will also dictate the type of mainspring that will need to be replaced and also the rising costs involved. Until the gun is examined properly it would be unfair to point the finger at one problem - there are few English boxlocks with firing pins and disc set strikers - the vintage of your gun would intimate the standard trade gun with a hammer and its integral striker nose. If you were closer to Worcestershire I could help you more!!! Anyway, you can try the penny test, and you will atleast be able to decide before taking your gun in for repair whether or not it is a spring replacement or hammer/striker repair. What you must remember, is that there are no spare parts for these guns, sat packaged waiting at wholesalers. Any repairs will no doubt be costly as a dealer will no doubt pass this job on to a gunsmith and then add their own profit mark up. Please let me know how you get on? - I hope you able to sort this out swiftly as it is not really a major repair to carry out !! But be warned, it could be costly as the work involved will require a gunsmith ( which may mean your gun is sent to trade worker for repair - incurring costs ) and bench time - it wont just involve swapping replacement packet parts like most modern OU's!!! regards, Jim.

Many thanks for the insight. My gun is a non ejector btw.
 
did the penny test on my shotgun as suggested and both pennies hit the ceiling , the left hand one maybe with arguably a bit more force than the right hand and I could see both firing pins which looked dome shaped.


only thing now is having done this I can't reassemble the barrell onto the action. Is there a way to reset the workings??
thanks,
 
Sorry Biffo, that part escaped my mind when posting so late the other night. If you have a workbench, ( or an old piece of wood to rest on a table will do ). Holding gun so that the trigger guard is facing upwards, push the two cocking dogs that protrude through action knuckle against the edge of the table and then push the gun downwards. This should re - cock the action. If you have any fine bladed turnscrews, you could also simply remove the cover plate on the underside of the action, and using a thin piece of wood push the rear end of the cocking dog downwards and this will cock the action. Sorry to have forgotten this the other night!!! If the pennies are hitting the ceiling, then without stripping the action yourself ( which I would not recommend ) I'm afraid without stripping the gun the problem may not be obvious to spot. Have you changed the brand of cartridges that you use recently?? Another problem that I have come across in the past is that some older guns have a different shaped rim than more modern ones. If you place a cartridge in the barrel chamber and then place a ruler over the barrel face across the cartridge primer you will see how much ''headspace'' there is. The problem of the misfire could be combination of weak spring, and worn hammer nose coupled with the shape of the rims on the chamber and extractors not corresponding with the modern shaped rim on the cartridge allowing it to seat lower into the chamber - even just a few thousands of an inch could make the difference between a fire and misfire. Without inspecting the gun I cant really offer much more insight as to which way your repair will go. Regards, Jim.
 
Sorry Biffo, that part escaped my mind when posting so late the other night. If you have a workbench, ( or an old piece of wood to rest on a table will do ). Holding gun so that the trigger guard is facing upwards, push the two cocking dogs that protrude through action knuckle against the edge of the table and then push the gun downwards. This should re - cock the action. If you have any fine bladed turnscrews, you could also simply remove the cover plate on the underside of the action, and using a thin piece of wood push the rear end of the cocking dog downwards and this will cock the action. Sorry to have forgotten this the other night!!! If the pennies are hitting the ceiling, then without stripping the action yourself ( which I would not recommend ) I'm afraid without stripping the gun the problem may not be obvious to spot. Have you changed the brand of cartridges that you use recently?? Another problem that I have come across in the past is that some older guns have a different shaped rim than more modern ones. If you place a cartridge in the barrel chamber and then place a ruler over the barrel face across the cartridge primer you will see how much ''headspace'' there is. The problem of the misfire could be combination of weak spring, and worn hammer nose coupled with the shape of the rims on the chamber and extractors not corresponding with the modern shaped rim on the cartridge allowing it to seat lower into the chamber - even just a few thousands of an inch could make the difference between a fire and misfire. Without inspecting the gun I cant really offer much more insight as to which way your repair will go. Regards, Jim.

Thanks , will give it a try. Much appreciate your help and advice.
 
This might be a common fault.
I was shooting with someone last week and they had exactly the same problem, but in the Highlands, I must pass on all the advice & suggestions to him.
 
Had the same problem with a gun I was loading for last year, I tought the fireing pin was goosed but never found out?
What was wrong with yours?
 
Had the same problem with a gun I was loading for last year, I tought the fireing pin was goosed but never found out?
What was wrong with yours?
just had it sorted. Apparently it was a problem with the top lever being worn. A welded price has solved the problem. Something about interfering with the righthand pin. All seemed logical when explained to me.
 
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