Otter?

The Airedale terrier was developed as a breed by Otter hunters. They crossed large examples of Black & Tan terrier with Otterhounds to create the mongrel that eventually became the new Airedale "terrier".

Just thought I'd mention that, for any who didn't already know.

Btw, I like to see Otters and we've got them breeding hereabouts, on a couple of Clyde tributaries... they're surprisingly big animals, when you get up close to them.

ps. I'm not a fish botherer so I'm sorry to say I'm really not very aware of the problems that Otters might be causing.
 
Neil

Don't want to put a downer on things from your POV but I saw an otter on Foulness Island about 6 months ago, was definately an otter as well, I had the video to prove it.

I have given up with our fishery, the comorants have had the lot. :(
 
Yes they do eat the non native cray fish, but they eat more of our native ones, and far to many fish.
For me at least they are not nice to see, and I hope I never see one on my patch, not sure what seeing one would mean to me.
It would spell the end of a 65 year old fishing club, would see the farmer loosing nearly 20k a year for rent, and 360 club members would have nowhere to fish.
It is a worry as we have to so called nature reserves very close by, both have said they want to introduce otters, but neither have bothered to ask local fisheries what their views are, and you can guarantee they won't help or supply otter proof fencing :evil:

Neil. :)

You really cannot blame the otters for cashing in on our desire to have high fish densities in stillwaters. First there were the small stillwater trout fisheries and now we have the carp fisheries rammed with expensive fish. If you provide what is essentially a fish supermarket for them why would they not use it? The best answer is for fisheries to fence against otters, OK I know it's not cheap but compared to the other consequences it may be the best option. The simple fact is that as with birds of prey, we are not allowed to control otters, and are not likely to be able to in the forseeable future. We have had otters locally for many years, they probably never left, and I don't begrudge them a few fish, just like the occasional ospreys that we have, the difference is that we are a river system with natural fish populations and, apart from a bitch with cubs, the otters come, take a few fish and move on as they are naturally nomadic. On the other hand there should be absolutely no need for any further introductions of otters as they're doing fine and will eventually populate any suitable area. I would take issue with one comment - given the current very low population of native white clawed crayfish I'd find it very hard indeed to believe that otters eat more of them than the much more prolific signals.
 
Did Essex ever have an Otter pack probably not will talk to some old hunting people who farm and were born and bred in essex to confirm that, so were they ever controlled or did they self regulate.

Yes essex did have a otter hound pack
 
Did Essex ever have an Otter pack probably not will talk to some old hunting people who farm and were born and bred in essex to confirm that, so were they ever controlled or did they self regulate.

Yes essex did have a otter hound pack

Thanks for the information any idea where they were based and when are we talking the 1930's any information would be of interest.
 
Recent map of Otter numbers in ESSEX they have not made it to the south yet so good news for one member.

Otters main diet are

Fish 67%
Invertebrae 20%
Birds 7%
Mammals 6%
Crayfish comprised 4%
 
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Interesting the lack of support for fisheries owners.

Is it not the same argument that drives gamekeepers to control foxes, stoats, corvids, etc etc? After all they are creating an unnatural density of a prey species, and of course they could just release more to cover their losses.

But it doesn't work like that does it.
 
otters main source of food was eels but since the decline of eels in rivers due to polution and the slow growing nature of elvers add to this the ease in which otters can gain food in fisherys there is no wonder the fish population is in decline. otters learn very fast and are not as shy as some make out i have had them fishing around my rods and wandering the banks next to me . Its like anything that gets re introduced things are not thaught out properly ,the river system cannot support the otters unless stocks are put into the rivers ,they are not to blame just trying to survive and like anything if the food source is easier away from the river they will go to it, atb wayne
 
Neil, i completely understand what you are going through , i have had similar issues with pine martens and ornamental fowl as well as pheasants one did 3ks worth of damage in one night . I still find the concept of what was suggested sad . for a species that was nearly wiped out through pesticide misuse/ignorance and other things it has made a fairly good recovery , but i don't think it's at a point where it needs to be culled .As i mentioned maybe live trapping and relocation would work , killing won't do any long term good as , like all predators will be another along sometime .And the potential damage to the hunting ,shooting, fishing network would be immense if someone was caught doing that .
 
Interesting the lack of support for fisheries owners.

Is it not the same argument that drives gamekeepers to control foxes, stoats, corvids, etc etc? After all they are creating an unnatural density of a prey species, and of course they could just release more to cover their losses.

But it doesn't work like that does it.

But it has been proven by pro shooting and conservation trust bodies that by keeping fox-corvid-mink-rat-stoat-weasel etc numbers to an acceptable level non shooting species also benefit massively, so it not always about game shooting there are other benefits.
 
I don't think people realise how many otters there are, certainly in North Cornwall & North Devon. I found one dead beside the A39 last year--nowhere near a watercourse. One night a couple of years back we had one scampering about on our drive, again nowhere near to a watercourse.


proximity to water is not a sign of population levels

Otters are well known land travellers and holts can be found miles from any water course.
I once saw an otter up a hill whilst stalking in Mull, close to a mile from the sea, nearest burn was not more than a dribble.

A swarm of cormorants will do a hell of a lot more damage than a family of otters, they operate a much larger territory and are pushed away when adolescent.
Even as a keen fisherman I am delighted to see otters, kingfishers, herons, mergansers, goosanders, in their natural habitats.

As an ex-NRA fisheries worker I would put otters over fish every day of the week and we even built artificial holts in sites across the South East

Seeing fish eating seabirds inland concerns me more
 
Interesting the lack of support for fisheries owners.

Is it not the same argument that drives gamekeepers to control foxes, stoats, corvids, etc etc? After all they are creating an unnatural density of a prey species, and of course they could just release more to cover their losses.

But it doesn't work like that does it.

True but all those can be legally controlled, it is the same for buzzards, sparrowhawks and peregrines all of which take poults and adult birds from my shoot but clearly can't be touched, nor would we contemplate it. If you create an artifically high density of prey, fish, fowl or fur, then expect predator numbers to go up. Stocked fisheries and game shoots are always going to be predated more heavily and you just have to factor that in or reduce stock levels to something more like nature intended i.e. that which can be sustained without additional feeding or taking them out before they start to feed. Very few stocked fisheries have a stock level in line with the natural food supply, they either rely on anglers bait (carp) or the fish being killed before they start to feed (trout), but it's not a problem with deer if we do our job as surrogate predators properly.

I am in clubs that have stocked small waters and I belong to a shoot that puts down 4,000 birds so it's not a case of me not being affected. I just think that we have put the pretty indefensible Victorian days of shooting every predator on sight behind us and that's where they should stay.
 
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Neil

Don't want to put a downer on things from your POV but I saw an otter on Foulness Island about 6 months ago, was definately an otter as well, I had the video to prove it.

I have given up with our fishery, the comorants have had the lot. :(

I had heard about it, and am told there is a resident pair at Pagalsham, near the boatyard, and has been for many years now.
We have not had a problem yet, even though a couple were released on Lion Creek nature reserve a while back, one was run over, no idea about the other.

Patjack, that map is wrong, they are in my area, read AnthonyR post.

Anthony, I didn't know you had a fishery, where about's is it?
To be honest Cormorants cause us little trouble, the lakes are mainly big fish at reasonably low density, the small fish have loads of cover
so most get away with it, at the moment they are there all the time, taking no notice of anglers, but an unmoderated shot from the any C/F seems to send them away for the day.
We also have a huge number of Herons about at the moment as well, 3 on a 1/3 of an acre lake, with 6 sitting out in the field.
Not bothered about them, I have made the lakes as Heron proof as possible, and at this time of year with clear water I doubt they will get enough to survive.

Neil. :)
 
I'm confused:banghead:

This might help explain: Eastern Counties Mink Hounds

Never hunted with them, but did use to go out with the Kent & Sussex Minkhounds in the early 80's. Then when I was out once sea trout fishing on the Teifi I had a pack come past - fantastic sight and sound.

I've had otters come past me when I've been fishing for salmon on both the North Tyne and the Blackwater, and I can't contemplate raising my hand against an otter. They really are a magical sight when they're hunting, being master predators like barn owls. That said, I really do feel for those with stocked fisheries who have "friendly" neighbours releasing otters nearby.

Great SpyCam photos by the way.

willie_gunn
 
This might help explain: Eastern Counties Mink Hounds

Never hunted with them, but did use to go out with the Kent & Sussex Minkhounds in the early 80's. Then when I was out once sea trout fishing on the Teifi I had a pack come past - fantastic sight and sound.

I've had otters come past me when I've been fishing for salmon on both the North Tyne and the Blackwater, and I can't contemplate raising my hand against an otter. They really are a magical sight when they're hunting, being master predators like barn owls. That said, I really do feel for those with stocked fisheries who have "friendly" neighbours releasing otters nearby.

Great SpyCam photos by the way.

willie_gunn

In my youth I used to follow the Hawkstone Otterhounds occasionally and they had a really striking blue tweed uniform with orange caps, as you say a fantastic sight and sound. We should have known something was up when after two days of drawing the main stem and tribs of the Monnow and Usk we didn't find any otters at all. This was around 1966 and pre-mink!!
 
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