Another Warning.

Muir

Well-Known Member
Get .224 bullets while you can.
I just spent the greater part of 2 hours looking through some of the US's largest wholesalers and found almost nothing. The Speer TNT 33 grain ash can Hornet bullets, one box of TNT 50 grain, 2 boxes of 90 grn VLD's and the odd Nosler Green bullet or varmint Ballistic tip. Some of the short 45 grain Hornet bullets were available. No back orders accepted. No delivery dates.

It is going to be a long, dry summer for those who weren't prepared.~Muir
 
Thanks Muir, already stocking up. Got my limits on 243 and 30 cal just ordered my limit in 270 from Cliffsgunsmithing. I got Speer grand slams for $32 (£20) for 50. and A Lee neck sizer for £12 bargain.
Tusker.
 
I was going to say the same the other night. Its starting to affect .308 bullets aswell struggling to get my usual stuff from sierra. I have to say this shows you how much we rely on America. cheers Hootsman
 
Then look to Europe then, some of the best ammunition and components have been coming out of Europe for years.
 
Plenty of ammo here. Going to the gun shop tomorrow they have a deal on ammo. Remington .308 loaded with the bonded bullet. It buy one box get one free.
 
I know that the more serious shooters keep up to supply levels but there are less-informed, or less frequent shooters who are going to be lost. I have seen a stream of casual shooters leave the trading post empty handed. It's sad and I feel for them.

8X57: That's a lucky thing. I wish we could get some here. I have a question though: how come you seldom-verging-on-never read about anyone using them? Are they more expensive?

Lastly, I was scrounging the racks at the trading post and found, stuffed way behind the current 6.5mm 140 grain SST's (iirc) two dusty boxes of my beloved Hornady 160 grain RN six-point fives. The price tags were from 1993 @ $16/100. The nice girl behind the counter gave then to me for $12 each and then sold me some primers for $30/1000. Gad. If I was younger...:love:~Muir
 
The problem that we have Muir is that two companies control the importation and distribution of the vast majority of reloading components and rifle ammunition which is mainly from the U.S. in their case. They literally dominate the market and shooters generally take the easy option and have themselves become used to and dependat on their products. The gunshops are so dependant on these two suppliers that they are afraid to buy elsewhere for fear of upsetting the big two and having their supply cut off. It's not that these two large companies are any good in fact there's a bit of a "take it or leave it" attitude.

Personally I don't mind using RWS or Sellier & Bellot primers whenever I can get hold of them, but most shooters have become so imprinted with the U.S. brands that they go into a blind panic if they don't see Federal, CCI or Remington in the shops.
Now we have been using Vihtavouri and Lapua products for years and they are aclaimed as some of the best, not to mention Norma and RWS so why panic. We also have access to Prvi Partizan and Sellior & Bellot not to mention Accurate Arms powders from the Czech Republic (not the U.S.) and a few other European manufacturers besides imports from South America and Australia so why panic. What really needs to be done is that some of the European manufacturers need to get up off their arses and develop the British and European market reloading markets more.

As for cost I'm a bit of a skinflint and shop around and usually find that some of the European (not all) products are cheaper. Some products are aimed at the cheaper end of the market and some are premium items with costs that reflect this, but the problem is all down to availability due distributor domination and manipulation of the market.
 
Last edited:
The problem that we have Muir is that two companies control the importation and distribution of the vast majority of reloading components and rifle ammunition which is mainly from the U.S. in their case. They literally dominate the market and shooters generally take the easy option and have themselves become used to and dependat on their products. The gunshops are so dependant on these two suppliers that they are afraid to buy elsewhere for fear of upsetting the big two and having their supply cut off. It's not that these two large companies are any good in fact there's a bit of a "take it or leave it" attitude.

Personally I don't mind using RWS or Sellier & Bellot primers whenever I can get hold of them, but most shooters have become so imprinted with the U.S. brands that they go into a blind panic if they don't see Federal, CCI or Remington in the shops.
Now we have been using Vihtavouri and Lapua products for years and they are aclaimed as some of the best, not to mention Norma and RWS so why panic. We also have access to Prvi Partizan and Sellior & Bellot not to mention Accurate Arms powders from the Czech Republic (not the U.S.) and a few other European manufacturers besides imports from South America and Australia so why panic. What really needs to be done is that some of the European manufacturers need to get up off their arses and develop the British and European market reloading markets more.

Here here!
 
8X57: That's a lucky thing. I wish we could get some here. I have a question though: how come you seldom-verging-on-never read about anyone using them? Are they more expensive?

Surely you've heard somebody using Lapua brass etc...?

I guess one reason for the popularity of US made bullets is that there's a lot of info on them, actual user experience terminal ballistics on internet forums and such. US manufacturers also cater for a lot of different needs in bullet line-up.

I'm using Nosler and Woodleigh bullets for hunting, based on the availability and price here in Finland. Woodleigh comes from Australia and I guess it's not very much used in UK. They're very good for what they are, traditionally designed bonded hunting bullets (trying to say, they don't have boattails, explosive expansion etc.)
 
I'm using Nosler and Woodleigh bullets for hunting, based on the availability and price here in Finland. Woodleigh comes from Australia and I guess it's not very much used in UK. They're very good for what they are, traditionally designed bonded hunting bullets (trying to say, they don't have boattails, explosive expansion etc.)

Woodleighs make a great bullet, but don't go smaller than 6.5mm. They make "hunting" bullets.
I'd say many of you are already using Aussie made powders too, just rebranded.

Cheers Sharkey
 
You are quite correct sharkey most shooters don't know where their powders originated from and they don't realise that many powders are actually sold under different names and brands in different countries.
I would love to use Woodleigh bullets in my larger calibre rifles because I don't think that they can be beaten but the cost over here puts them in the premium sector of the market. Plus you have the problem of availability, it's illegal to post expanding bullets in this country. What are the prices like for Woodleigh bullets in Oz?
 
Surely you've heard somebody using Lapua brass etc...?

I guess one reason for the popularity of US made bullets is that there's a lot of info on them, actual user experience terminal ballistics on internet forums and such. US manufacturers also cater for a lot of different needs in bullet line-up.

I'm using Nosler and Woodleigh bullets for hunting, based on the availability and price here in Finland. Woodleigh comes from Australia and I guess it's not very much used in UK. They're very good for what they are, traditionally designed bonded hunting bullets (trying to say, they don't have boattails, explosive expansion etc.)

I was referring to primers, actually. I have Norma, PPU, S&B etc brass. Non domestic primers are very scarce here. I see your problem with the monopoly.

8x57: Skinflint? Me too.~Muir
 
You are quite correct sharkey most shooters don't know where their powders originated from and they don't realise that many powders are actually sold under different names and brands in different countries.
I would love to use Woodleigh bullets in my larger calibre rifles because I don't think that they can be beaten but the cost over here puts them in the premium sector of the market. Plus you have the problem of availability, it's illegal to post expanding bullets in this country. What are the prices like for Woodleigh bullets in Oz?

They are the most affordable option ,as well as being the best conventional projectiles around. Much cheaper than imported projectiles. The folks at Woodleigh are always available for support if you're working up a load for something new or unusual or for an old double, etc.
They really support dealers too & there is always specials or bulk buys for clubs or at gun shows.

For 50 x 30 cal I think the regular price is around $40, but there are always specials. The last box i bought was 286 gr 9.3 & they were a bit under the $60 mark for 50 & not a special.

Another great thing about woodleigh is they do things like 180 gr 270 ,240 gr in 30, 350 gr in 375. These are great in some instances & no one else does them.

Cheers Sharkey
 
problem is we're a small community that reload. most people in europe tend to buy factory ammo as far as I understand, and in the UK, I mean, it's a tiny market, nothing near what's necessary to start large scale production. Even IF there was a growing domestic market, the regulation about acquisition and holding quantities would make selling in bulk and getting good economies of scale impossible.

it's the police that's killed off the industry, nothing else. until THAT changes, we'll be relying on US imports and paying higher and higher prices until the chap in the oval office buggers off.
 
Got to agree with 8X57. The european manufacturers need to get their finger oot :banghead:

Where the U.S. has the edge is that their marketing is so much better and levels of service are superb compared to most of the distributors in this country. You can't even call the distributors in this country representatives because none of them represent the manufacturers well in this country.

I approached one of the reps for Ruag a couple of years ago and asked why do Ruag turn up at the big shows and game fairs with big glossy displays showing their full line up of bullets yet few of the products are readily available to reloaders. The answer that I got was that they are not interested in developing the market. Yet in the U.S. Norma also owned by Ruag have just launched a new website and are actively marketing the reloading side of the business. We may only be a relatively small market but surely it's worth developing?
 
not sure how many stalkers there are in the UK, but let's say 500,000. let us assume a third reload, that's 165,000. let us know say that the average reloader buys 100 bullets for 2 calibres per annum. That's 330,000 boxes of 100 sold. Let us know say that the price of an average box of 100 bullets is £25, that's £8.25m gross revs. if they make just 30% gross profit margin that's roughly £2.5m gross revenue. Take tax off that, say we're down to £2m, then take off advertising, logistics, sales rep salaries, etc. etc. and I bet you're lucky to turn £1m net profit....and THAT is if you based on these assumptions have a monopoly! if you have just 20% marketshare, you're maybe looking at a couple hundred grand.

depressing, I know...
 
Got to agree with 8X57. The european manufacturers need to get their finger oot :banghead:

Or you start up a business to break the monopoly.
The Trading Post got in a late shipment last night. Lots of boxes marked Federal and Winchester but I didn't wander back to see what the boxes actually contained.~Muir
 
Back
Top