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Thread: permission / stalking rights or oppertunities

  1. #1

    permission / stalking rights or oppertunities

    I've been following the thread that offers cull shooting for fallow and munties. Someone suggested that the demand for stalking was so high and the oppertunities so few and far between that the stalker was unlikely to have problems filling his high seats (even though he came across as a complete tool) .
    Is this the case? I personally could not afford to pay that kind of money if stalking was to be anything other than a occasional thing. I've paid to go to scotland for the reds but this was more a stalking holiday rather than a one off stalk neer where i live.
    My stalking consists of a couple of small oxfordshire farms where I can come and go as I like and keep any carcasses that i shoot ( some obviously gets given to the farmers) I also occasionally help out with a cull on an estate ( dont keep carcasses but dont pay to shoot) and have some leads that i will follow up when i get the chance.
    Say for example you pay for all your stalking and you go roe stalking every fortnight that would be a minimum of 60 x 52/ 2 = 1560 per year before anything is shot you then have trophy fees on top and tips and if you want venison you have to buy it. Is this what people are doing? paying?
    Part of stalking i feel is learning your patch, knowing roughly whats on it and developing it, you cant do this on an individually paid stalk.
    Am i just lucky to have got a bit of ground or are the people who pay cash rich time poor? im interested to find out.
    one thing i have seen is that people have been advised to wear a tie clean the car have all your docs insurance etc when trying to get some permission. I can see the rationale but cant say its ever worked for me, i find that land owners farmers etc are a little averse to this formal approach and even more so in entering into a contract even signing letters of permission. i feel thet they prefer a slightly less formal arrangement then its up to you to keep you nose clean.
    Whats worked best for me is that every time that i have a conversation with anyone that i think may hold the key to some permission i get on the topic of deer and gradually introduce the idea of me shooting them, you get plenty of polite thanks but no thanks but occasionally you hit the jackpot.

    Im not trying to willy wave about permission, just curious about other peoples set ups or expieriences.


  2. #2
    pete a very honest informative post
    have to agree with what you say about how you go about
    getting your permission .
    im very lucky like yourself that i have my own stalking all free
    apart from 2000 acres that i lease and as you say the big part
    is seeing what you have on your patch
    atb pete .

  3. #3
    You two aren't winning many friends here!

    I have to drive 500 miles to my lone patch or Scotland, or depend on the generosity of closer friends, for my stalking.

    It's people like you, and the particularly jammy gits who have 300 yard ranges out their patio doors, that keep me howling "*******s" at the moon.

    I've even had to buy a cat and call it "*******s" to keep my slate clean with the law.......


    (just messing around fellas, it is very interesting to hear your thoughts Pete, thank you for such an honest, informative post )

  4. #4
    grandhubert i think the most important thing to realise is no
    matter how much or how little stalking one has is to not take it for granted and to respect the land owners as there is allways some
    trying to get it off you regards pete .

  5. #5
    i agree
    I also feel that it is possible to loose permission by trying to hold on to it too tightly. If i was too loose my permission tomorow I would sincerely thank the farmers for their generosity over the years and accept it.
    I shared some permision with someone, he had some sort of contract that only named roe. The farmer being generous said i could shoot the munties (i suspect this chaps contracts now just say deer) i kept my nose clean and shot a lot of munties. He tried to throw his weight about and in the winter when the roe grouped up the farmer felt that not enough had come off (and thats whos opinion counts)
    when the contract came up it was bye byes and pete can you help do anything about the roe. some other lads take the occasional deer and do some lamping and i contacted them and said we must get on and not create waves and its working well.
    try to boss it and lay down the law and the farmer will say, bye bye

  6. #6
    As someone who hopes to get ( and hopefully keep ) a patch closer to home ( london ....)one day, the observations on this thread are very interesting and useful.

    Got any tips on dealing with paranoid shepherds?



    PS. folk with stalking minutes from home and access to an ally with a tractor are still *******s, I just hope to be among their number at some point....

  7. #7
    SD Regular willie_gunn's Avatar
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    Apart from the professional deer managers amongst us I think everyone has to balance their own individual circumstances. There is no right or wrong answer.

    For example, I used to have my own permission but pressures of work meant that it became impractical to keep it on. With all the travel for my job I didn't feel I could put the hours necessary into properly managing the deer. However, even at that time I still paid for occasional stalking with my friend and mentor who manages the deer on a couple of local estates.

    Having given up my own permission I am now one of his 'retained stalkers', which means I can go out when I like but also help to guide clients, complete the doe cull, etc. If I go out on my own then I pay the same rates as clients for the animals I shoot but of course I don't have to pay the regular guiding fee. The only real downside of this arrangement is that I can't offer anyone 'free' stalking - it might be free to them but I still have to pay for what's shot This aside, for my circumstances this type of arrangement works well.

    On the other hand, some of the clients have been coming stalking on the same estate for years - one has shot more than 100 deer over several years. For many clients the enjoyment is in the stalking itself and they don't want to get involved in all the other aspects of deer management. I (and I think you) would believe they are missing out on a lot of the pleasure, but I understand why they take the approach they do. They may not live close to the permission, they may have more pressing demands on their time, they may not feel qualified, or they may just plain not be interested! To be honest it's their choice and from what I can see all parties are happy.


  8. #8
    i agree, different strokes different folks. If I had a large area or estate to manage there is no way i could do it from the time point of view and also from the expieriance side of things. Thats one of the reasons i havnt followed up some leads as time is pressured.

  9. #9
    I am extremely lucky in that I don't have to pay for any stalking and all my ground is within 10 miles of my house, I can even see my house from one of my highseats (sorry Grandhubert). All my ground has come through other forms of shooting, mostly foxing which I pick up through word of mouth-once people have got to know me and seen my approach, they ask if I would take a few deer although around here there are very few Roe, it is nearly all Muntjac with the odd rogue group of Fallow.

    The only downside to this is a lot of my land is specified as me only, no guests so I have little land with which to return stalking favours. I see it the same way as Pete- I like knowing my ground, what it holds and see it as an important part of stalking. Although I wouldn't ever rule out paying for stalking (for example I would like to try for a Sika one day but there are none in Lincs so it's going to mean paying), it isn't something that really appeals to me and I wouldn't be out anywhere near as much as I am now if I had to pay per outing or travel to my ground. I do try to get other people onto my ground when I can as I can quite understand how they feel having to pay for permission and I realise how lucky I am.



  10. #10
    I have the best of both worlds,I am in a scotish syndicate where I can go as often as I like and also take a stalking friend now and again, for roe and odd red / fallow.
    shoot owning friends who have the stalking and let me shoot one or two for nothing ,( got my best head ever off this property this may)
    a mate who has fantastic stalking for roe and red for nothing who lets me stalk in exchange for pigeon shooting, rabbits etc.
    the only time i pay for stalking apart from the sydicate is the hind culls in scotland, which is getting more expensive every year.
    personally I would not pay 350 plus for a weekend stalking but I am lucky that I have plenty to go at, but do feel for the lads who are not as fortunate and have to pay these prices .

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