The best till last.

cookingfat

Well-Known Member
This was the last movement day I have been involed in this year and I could say that I saved the best till last from a tracking point of veiw.

The day started at about 6 am for me because I am a keeper and there are traps and snares to check before anything els, then put the tea urn on and get the bacon going for the stalkers to eat before the morning's breif, there is always plenty of liverly converstion over tea and bacon buttie's normally over which scope or callibr is the best or who has shot the biggest or best and this morning was no exception, finally managed to get every body out in to there seat's by 9.30 ish, our main target for today is fallow as there are big numbers in this part of the world and as you all know not easy to stalk and control, so like them or love these sort of days there are sometimes the only way to make a dent in the population.

The movment day involed 8 farms and estates of differant sizes from 400-5000 acres and coverd probaley some 12,000 acres in total, not sure about numbers of rifles because i was only responceble for organizing two farms and they had 12 people sat in seats.

On this occation I was not going to be on hand with my dog because I was running the day so I asked a friend to come and help with his three year old lab who I had seen develop over the years, he has been trained as a deadicated deer dog, but does still go beating and will pick up, he is a family pet and lives inside, he comes into contact with deer most days as his onwer works with deer as a professional.

All the parties involed had my phone number and had briefed all there stalkers that should something go wrong they were to mark the shot site and maybe make a note of were they think they may of hit the beast and direction it had taken from the shot site.

As the morning progressed i had a report from a keeper from a neighbouring farm that a fallow that had been wounded with a probable gut shot, so with this information in mind the best thing was to let the deer lay up and try tracking later in the day instaed of chasing a adrenalin fueled animal from pillar to post.

With the movement now finished and all our deer grallocked, well all one of them on our patch..!!( not quite the rat in a barroll shooting you think it may be )we then made our way to my neighbour to see if we could locate the wounded fallow, the rifle that had shot the deer had now gone off to lunch with the boss but had left a good account of what he thought had happend with the keeper and as it turned out the information was about right, he thought he had hit the deer in the gut somewhere it had then run into a wood which was oak and hazal coppiest, another rifle then tried his best to distpatch the animal with a head shot as that was the only bit he could see.

We found the shot site and sure enough some hair and some green gut content, the dog followed the trail into the wood and after some 600 yards we found a large peice small intestine(see picture)and this was also the place where the head shot was probably taken, the dog then indicated blood and a peice of bone, after that he was indicating blood every few yards(see picture) then slowly the blood drop became less frequent, we crossed a track and the trail took a hard left turn and found a wound bed then looked up and saw the fallow some 30 yards in front of us trying to move on again, at this point the deer was ditspactched and the dog let off the lead to to go in and hold it down(see picture) its good practice for the dog even though the deer was dead, the handler would only let him off as long as there is no danger to him, had it been a red stag, boar or even a big muntie then he would stay on.


It was only then we could see the full extent of its injurys(see pictures), this fallow fawn was very much still alive after four hours allow probably wans't going much further, had it been a bigger stonger animal who knows..! Some people may say how can someone f### up so badly and myself and other tracking teams can't get up set with the shooter, well I never judge other peoples shooting when I have been called in to help, just try and do our best to help locate the wounded animal, we dont always end up with a found animal sometimes because bounderys or sometimes just cant get a handle on the trail.


This labrador has matured into a first class tracking dog and is one of the best tracking dogs in my part of the of the world, he is a big strong dog and is very obedient, will sit under a high seat for hours, indcates blood on the trail, and will go in if asked.

to see photos look down the thread to my next post, for some reason, probaley due to my in incompetence it did not work this time

Tony

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sorry boys try this

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not at all 6pointer, this could have been one man out on his own,


by having a deadicated deer dog on hand we have deer welfare very much in mind
 
Seeing the pics
I remember watching this dog work
It did show impressive promise and now matured to a quality dog
nice one

Davie
on a welfare point
there are hidden misconceptions on how Fallow should be managed in such scales as Tony is faced with
Herds of 300-500 are not an uncommon sight and I am talking per field not area
but the reality of it all
it has been set up to help reduce deer numbers quickly and effectively down to the last details including using dogs and handlers trained for such work
this post highlights those facts
deer management is one thing but follow up work is another which many who stalk here in the UK are not properly equipped for
 
Do you think that the movment days go against deer welfare.

Nope.

Personally I think they are a highly valuable tool in the area that myself and Tony work in.

Providing you have the tools at your disposal to correct any cock ups that happen then they are a very effective way of putting large numbers of deer on the deck.

As Tony pointed out this could have happened with one man on his own.
 
Very good read, well done on the follow up! , it must be highly rewarding seeing a dogs training all come together to produce a pricess asset , its hard not to judge the stalkers f... ups or ridicule , because i think thats the problem in this country as opposed to the continent , lets hope the stalkers of the future are more honest about it when it goes wrong , and call guys like you , credit to the handler and his dog :tiphat: .
 
Eggy,s what might be the problem is that areas that cannot be managed properly with due regards for deer welfare by one or two stalkers . The greed and selfishness in our sport will not let any one else in to manage the deer the way they should be result is an increase in deer numbers and then a panic reaction and many deer getting shot all roads .There is only one winner in this and that is the dog man.

You are correct Egg,s it could happen with one man on his own!!!! But not as often as moving deer in front of eager guns on high stands.

My thought on this is do the job properly in the first place there is more than enough resource in your area
 
Eggy,s what might be the problem is that areas that cannot be managed properly with due regards for deer welfare by one or two stalkers . The greed and selfishness in our sport will not let any one else in to manage the deer the way they should be result is an increase in deer numbers and then a panic reaction and many deer getting shot all roads .There is only one winner in this and that is the dog man.

You are correct Egg,s it could happen with one man on his own!!!! But not as often as moving deer in front of eager guns on high stands.

My thought on this is do the job properly in the first place there is more than enough resource in your area

6pointer the job is being done properly, on all these farms there are stalkers on the ground all year round trying to get to grips with the fallow, we get mates to sit in seats for nothing just to try and control them, the fallow here are a big problem and this is just another tool we use and its only done once a year, I guess you don't have to much of a fallow problem up there ?

Regards tony
 
CF We don't really have any deer related problems in the central belt at all. The deer here are well managed. But there are a few hot spots these areas are areas were deer managers are not allowed access.
 
6pointer the job is being done properly, on all these farms there are stalkers on the ground all year round trying to get to grips with the fallow, we get mates to sit in seats for nothing just to try and control them, the fallow here are a big problem and this is just another tool we use and its only done once a year, I guess you don't have to much of a fallow problem up there ?

Regards tony
It is a common well used tool that actually benefits deer welfare by less disturbance and ability to cull to proper targets
like everything, it it what is appropriate to your own area and for those with lots of fallow especially it can be the only effective way in certain territories
 
Eggy,s what might be the problem is that areas that cannot be managed properly with due regards for deer welfare by one or two stalkers . The greed and selfishness in our sport will not let any one else in to manage the deer the way they should be result is an increase in deer numbers and then a panic reaction and many deer getting shot all roads .There is only one winner in this and that is the dog man.

You are correct Egg,s it could happen with one man on his own!!!! But not as often as moving deer in front of eager guns on high stands.

My thought on this is do the job properly in the first place there is more than enough resource in your area

Did it ever cross your mind that those of us that use this method might be the ones who do manage the populations correctly?

Maybe the problem comes from the other people in the area that don't and the likes of CF and myself are left to deal with the consequences. The fallow in this area are not resident they are here one day and gone the next.

I can assure you there is no greed or selfishness from mine or CF point of view we both work for individual estates.

I guess it is easy to bash people about the work they do over the internet when you know nothing about them.

From a deer welfare point of view what is better (talking from a roe point of view)

1. Constantly being shot at through out the season?

2. Or the cull being done in one day?

The fallow I hit hard all through the season as often as I can or my clients can.
 
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Did it ever cross your mind that those of us that use this method might be the ones who do manage the populations correctly?

Maybe the problem comes from the other people in the area that don't and the likes of CF and myself are left to deal with the consequences. The fallow in this area are not resident they are here one day and gone the next.

I can assure you there is no greed or selfishness from mine or CF point of view we both work for individual estates.

I guess it is easy to bash people about the work they do over the internet when you know nothing about them.

From a deer welfare point of view what is better

1. Constantly being shot at through out the season?

2. Or the cull being done in one day?

exactly.

From my limited experience I can see the importance of collaborative culls when it comes to fallow, we're not talking about dopey roe or reds which will allow you to shoot half the group before moving on. I managed to shoot a couple of fallow does this morning and it was bloody hard work trying to stalk them, and then it was from two separate small groups. When there are large groups involved you have no chance of getting close to them to manage them properly and this is when collaborative culls work.
 
Never been on one but it does seem a good way of controlling deer to me. As long as the guys in the seats are not new at the job and have shot enough not to suffer from buck fever.
 
Eggy,s you seem to be taking this persnelly. This was not ment to be a personel dig but a question that has not been answerd. But to drive deer to waiting guns for cash and to have people mop up the aftmath is not in my opinion deer managemnt but a tool used to react to a problem. It is time the DI got control of these days and set proper deer management plans in place. Please remember a tool to do a job is one thing but if it is used year after year it then become part of the management plan and that's got to be wrong.

Good on you Eggy, and CF for as you describe it clearing up the mess.
Please dont tell me this is the best way to manage deer because if that was the case you would not continue to hit them hard all through the year. Maybe you need a hand from local chaps who have no access to stalking.
The deer in these drives are shot any road up and i hope deer welfare is never measured from events like this.
 
Eggy,s you seem to be taking this persnelly. This was not ment to be a personel dig but a question that has not been answerd. But to drive deer to waiting guns for cash and to have people mop up the aftmath is not in my opinion deer managemnt but a tool used to react to a problem. It is time the DI got control of these days and set proper deer management plans in place. Please remember a tool to do a job is one thing but if it is used year after year it then become part of the management plan and that's got to be wrong.

Good on you Eggy, and CF for as you describe it clearing up the mess.
Please dont tell me this is the best way to manage deer because if that was the case you would not continue to hit them hard all through the year. Maybe you need a hand from local chaps who have no access to stalking.
The deer in these drives are shot any road up and i hope deer welfare is never measured from events like this.

what planet are you on nobody pays to sit in seats, the deer are not driven and the DI where there on the day.

local chaps yes who shoot a lot and know there limits..!

you just have no idear have you.....!!!!!
 
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