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Thread: BASC Head Measuring?

  1. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by 6pointer View Post
    David what about none members of BASC whats the cost for them.
    surely their subsidised service either shouldn't be available to non members or more expensive to cater for the lack of membership.

    ​Surely the ultimate answer with this service is if no one used it then it would fizzle out and die but the opposite seems to be happening suggesting people aren't all insisting on CIC measurement and like to be able to take their trophies to game fairs.

  2. #52
    It is not unusual to re-launch products or services with a few tweaks and a bit of a freshen up. This sort of thing goes on all the time.

    The original BASC head measuring service was launched at the Game fair in 2008 and as I said trotted along merrily all be it with a few issues with the badges in the early days.

    There was nothing wrong with the previous service and it was popular but by collaborating with a deer stalking focused publication there was the ability to regularly promote the service better than before. So it was relaunched with the support and collaboration of Sporting Rifle last year as a joint service with new medals.

    You would need to check with Peter about his comments on roebuck trophy's shot this past season, but we certainly have had loads of roes measured over the past 12 months as well as before. I suspect, but you would have to check with Peter, that his data came from the published Roe Reviews? I am not trying to dodge the question but please understand we have no editorial control over Sporting Rifle

    Heads being measured by both systems are achieving comparable scores and by default are meeting the CIC international standard; we measured over 200 trophies last year

    As to the BASC platinum… The CIC themselves consider their system to be outdated and they are going through a rather divisive process to change and update their measurement criteria. having originally taken the view that they were to remove the subjective measurements in species such as Roe ( beauty points, pearling, symmetry etc.) which was eventually dropped.

    It appears that there are now proposals to include the age of the animal into the criteria and that they are also looking at developing another category for” top quality trophies” which score well above gold.

    They are also considering a standardised set of charges and fees to be levied for all measurements, medals and certificates etc.

    Suggest that you read the archived content on the CIC website, they are at pains to highlight that such systems are continually developing and BASC would not disagree with that.

    You could also ask UKCIC to comment on the forum on the changes planned for the future?

    As to the measuring formula, just compare the reviews in Sporting Rifle and ST – there will be examples of both systems in use.

    As the extra questions were put on as edits I may have missed something, if so let me know!

    David

  3. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by David BASC View Post
    Good evening Simon,

    With regard to the BASC Platinum medal, we first started discussing this in late summer 2010 and spent 2011 developing the idea more as the BASC head measuring service really started to take off.

    What we wanted was something that was that little bit different for the BASC product, and something that recognised truly remarkable heads, hence the Platinum, which was launched in 2012. Wouldn’t it be ironic if now CiC launched an enhanced gold or something along those lines….

    As to the comparison between a BASC bronze, silver and gold, with the CiC, well as you can imagine several people have had heads measured under both systems... and guess what- a BASC bronze silver or gold head would also most likely, score bronze silver or gold with CiC.

    But as I say, people can make their own choice as to which system they personally value and want to use.

    I have no doubt at all that the CiC data will be of interest and value to many, just as the BASC data is to our members and others.

    For someone who will never use either service you are taking a very special interest so thank you ever so much for the questions and feedback.

    As always, if I have missed anything please let me know.
    David
    David BASC
    I'm not sure that the CIC does irony. After all It's an international conservation organisation with a worldwide reputation whose members range from individuals,and hunting organisations to whole countries!
    I doubt it will alter the trophy award system which it has operated for more than 80 years to create higher awards, in response to BASC, or anyone else. It has no need to, it is internationally recognised! Nor do I think it is likely to consider that measurements taken by non- accredited individuals who seem to be using a modified version of its formulae are in any way comparable with its own data. The CIC formulae have stood the test of time, and will continue to do so.
    By the way I hear that Shooting Times is due to run a major feature on the CIC and its accredited trophy measuring scheme next week.It might help you to understand the range of work it performs if you look at its website at CIC Wildlife: Latest News
    atb

  4. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by ROE308 View Post
    David BASC
    I'm not sure that the CIC does irony. After all It's an international conservation organisation with a worldwide reputation whose members range from individuals,and hunting organisations to whole countries!
    I doubt it will alter the trophy award system which it has operated for more than 80 years to create higher awards, in response to BASC, or anyone else. It has no need to, it is internationally recognised! Nor do I think it is likely to consider that measurements taken by non- accredited individuals who seem to be using a modified version of its formulae are in any way comparable with its own data. The CIC formulae have stood the test of time, and will continue to do so.
    By the way I hear that Shooting Times is due to run a major feature on the CIC and its accredited trophy measuring scheme next week.It might help you to understand the range of work it performs if you look at its website at CIC Wildlife: Latest News
    atb
    ROE308,

    That is a cracking link to the CIC site. Particularly interesting is the appeal to other organisations to standardise the measuring of heads and to take a united stand on sustainable shooting practises. There was an awful lot on that site that I have heard argued by other organisations, mainly that we would be stronger talking with one voice rather than the babbling of many. I wonder where I read similar statements, could it have been from a certain British organisation...................................... ..


    ​Simon
    Last edited by flytie; 16-04-2013 at 18:03.

  5. #55
    SD Regular willie_gunn's Avatar
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    Simon

    It is worth signing up for the CIC e-letter, as they issue some quite interesting stuff now and again.

    They publish, for example, a free document on the evolution of the CITES regulations. Maybe not of interest to everyone (though there have been a few threads on the Site recently about the import/export of trophies) but in respect of one of my lines of business (global trade compliance) very useful indeed. They also tell you about other new publications that might be of interest - last year for example I found out about a publication of an analysis of all the CIC roe measurements across Europe. Again, something of a specialist publication, but if your interest is broader than just shooting deer then often of value.

    Their quarterly newsletter is also helpful in understanding hunting in a broader context - they recently published an article on the development of bowhunting in Europe.

    To be fair, the BASC Deer Stalking (Fast Track) e-letter is also excellent. For example the issue this week included the dates for Arran and details of the latest FC deer permissions in Scotland.

    It would just be so much better if all the different organisations spent more time on stuff that really adds value and less on the inter-necine conflict.

    willie_gunn
    O wad some Power the giftie gie us to see oursels as ithers see us!

  6. #56
    David BASC,

    Thank you for taking the time to answer my questions.

  7. #57
    Here is my opinion for what it is worth. I am not a member of BASC neither do I have any ties to them.

    That said I do use their measuring service. In my stalking T and C's it states that so any stalker who stalks with me accepts that.

    The reason why I do this is I have a lot of international clients who want to take their trophies home with them not wait 3 months and then get them. If they are measured by BASC then at least they get added to the UK records. If they go aboard who knows where they will get added to.

    It is my understanding that there is only two main differences between the systems.

    Under CIC with Roe when you look at the head you get points for how wide of narrow the head is.

    It goes:
    1 Very Narrow
    2 Slightly narrow.
    etc up to
    5 Perfect.

    Now anything over the perfect gets a zero as it is considered to be to wide. BASC say just because it is to wide it should still get points so it goes from 5 point for perfect to 1 point for super wide. This to me makes sense.

    The other big difference is they offer up a platinum medal.

    If you ask me there is a big difference between a boarder line Gold/Silver and a 200 point monster so why not recognise that?

    So the 2 systems are pretty close but there are differences.

    In my opinion the BASC system makes the most sense and represents the best interests of the UK stalking community as the heads that are shot in this country are measured in this country.

  8. #58
    Evening Roe308. Thank you indeed for your post and the link. As I said earlier, the CiC will do what is best for them and their members as will BASC .

    Simon, sustainable shooting practice is fundamental to the future of what we all do and love to do. You will tend to find that on key issues that have a strategic impact on shooting the shooting organisations in the UK and Europe do tend to sing from the same hymn sheet, but that does not stop and of us from developing products and services for our members, even if some are duplicated.

    Willie, glad you like the Stalking Fast track, and as I have said before, there is far more cooperation between the organisations than may be apparent

    Bogtrotter, you are very welcome

    David

  9. #59
    Willie - can you send me a link to that roe publication?

    CIC measured trophies may also be entered into Rowland Ward... http://www.cic-wildlife.org/index.php?id=701&no_cache=1&sword_list[]=roe

    Last edited by JabaliHunter; 16-04-2013 at 20:14.

  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by eggy s View Post
    Here is my opinion for what it is worth. I am not a member of BASC neither do I have any ties to them.

    That said I do use their measuring service. In my stalking T and C's it states that so any stalker who stalks with me accepts that.

    The reason why I do this is I have a lot of international clients who want to take their trophies home with them not wait 3 months and then get them. If they are measured by BASC then at least they get added to the UK records. If they go aboard who knows where they will get added to.

    It is my understanding that there is only two main differences between the systems.

    Under CIC with Roe when you look at the head you get points for how wide of narrow the head is.

    It goes:
    1 Very Narrow
    2 Slightly narrow.
    etc up to
    5 Perfect.

    Now anything over the perfect gets a zero as it is considered to be to wide. BASC say just because it is to wide it should still get points so it goes from 5 point for perfect to 1 point for super wide. This to me makes sense.

    The other big difference is they offer up a platinum medal.

    If you ask me there is a big difference between a boarder line Gold/Silver and a 200 point monster so why not recognise that?

    So the 2 systems are pretty close but there are differences.

    In my opinion the BASC system makes the most sense and represents the best interests of the UK stalking community as the heads that are shot in this country are measured in this country.
    I always thought CIC maximum for span was 4 fella. Did it change or am I confused?

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