# Thread: The myth of a bullet needing to be close up to the lands

1. ## The myth of a bullet needing to be close up to the lands

A friend who has recently changed from a 260 Rem in a Steyr to a 6.5 Tikka asked me to develop rounds for this new rifle. All the rifles I develop rounds for (apart from one) will shoot good groups well back from the lands. I start all development using the OCW method and with this particular rifle at 220 thou back off the land - the most promising at this 220 thou back produced a little over .6" So today having given it some thought decided to bring it much closer to the lands at 180 thou off. He came over and shot the rifle and this was the result - I always letter targets A B C etc so that the shooter has no idea of the recipe I am using so that he cannot be influenced. C shows a 4 shot (only) group of .354 edge to edge less bullet diameter of .264 - you do the math!!

So the point of this post is to say that you do not have to only consider seating the bullet 10 to 30 thou back - the average rifle has maybe 3 sweet spots and it you can find this sweet spot seating well back from the lands you will have the additional benefit of less air space in your case.

I am ashamed to say that all cases are the same make and yes, its only for deer

2. Originally Posted by PeterH
A friend who has recently changed from a 260 Rem in a Steyr to a 6.5 Tikka asked me to develop rounds for this new rifle. All the rifles I develop rounds for (apart from one) will shoot good groups well back from the lands. I start all development using the OCW method and with this particular rifle at 220 thou back off the land - the most promising at this 220 thou back produced a little over .6" So today having given it some thought decided to bring it much closer to the lands at 180 thou off. He came over and shot the rifle and this was the result - I always letter targets A B C etc so that the shooter has no idea of the recipe I am using so that he cannot be influenced. C shows a 4 shot (only) group of .354 edge to edge less bullet diameter of .264 - you do the math!! So the point of this post is to say that you do not have to only consider seating the bullet 10 to 30 thou back - the average rifle has maybe 3 sweet spots and it you can find this sweet spot seating well back from the lands you will have the additional benefit of less air space in your case. I am ashamed to say that all cases are the same make and yes, its only for deer

Are you just looking to start a argument!. I hope you have good body armour on!

3. I know this flies against what the gun whores write etc but the facts are the facts and something I discovered many years back. None of my rifles like the bullets seated close to the lands ........................................... not one of them.

4. You all know how I stand on it. I always start with the parallel sides of the bullet seated to the base of the neck. I seldom need to move it once I've hit the right charge.~Muir

5. Surely one of the main benefits of reloading is to make ammunition specific to the individual rifle, so it is well worthwhile trying different variations. atb Tim

6. Originally Posted by Muir
You all know how I stand on it. I always start with the parallel sides of the bullet seated to the base of the neck. I seldom need to move it once I've hit the right charge.~Muir
Makes sense.
edi

7. Peter, am I missing something? Your picture shows three different charge weights and two different seating depths. ISTM that only be changing one parameter at a time can you make a meaningful comparison. Couldn't it be either the charge weight or the seating depth, orthe combination of both that is responsible for the fine group on the right?

8. Originally Posted by timbrayford
Surely one of the main benefits of reloading is to make ammunition specific to the individual rifle, so it is well worthwhile trying different variations. atb Tim
Sure it is, but there is an obsession with loading close to the lands that has become internet gospel over the last few years.~Muir

9. Originally Posted by Muir
Sure it is, but there is an obsession with loading close to the lands that has become internet gospel over the last few years.~Muir
it all depends on the rifle and the bullets being used,there are no hard and fast rules but the general rule of thumb is "rifles shoot better just off the lands" but as I said its not always the case.
its also down the the rifles freebore.
only one way to find out and that's try it,thats the fun of reloading

10. My 17 remington has fired 1000's of rounds through it and must have a significant amount of throat erosion by now yet it shoots as good as ever with my first load OAL of 2.150" in fact its my favourite go to hunting load for this rifle, with the lands probably running down the tube every shot........lol.... this little gun shoots great.

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