Whatever happened to sportmanship

Lord muck

Well-Known Member
Since retiring I find myself out in the field more often than not , topping up the freezer , even if just for a walk to watch , enjoy & studying the wildlife around the estates I live. The other past time I find myself getting entertainment is flicking through the various ' shooting' forums ( I say this lightly as most seem to know so much yakety yak ,yet do so very little or understand the 'sport' ) & read the amazing tales from the real sportsmen out there who understand the outdoors in the fresh air & around various sites , as well as the reading the unfortunate childish jealousy from dreamers & novices , I am guessing new to the 'sport' with contempt for those with knowledge or doing better .

I remember not so long ago when you could trust a like minded sportsman, build a bonding & go for a wander ,as well as a shoot sharing grounds & simply managing the grounds to our & of course the land owners advantage , keeping pest to a well balanced level & the game healthy & breeding well.
Now I read almost & too much talk about is the ability to kill !! mainly without a reason why ? Anything a moron & idiot can do basically, so what happened to the bond, trust & the sportsmanship between us ? before it destroys our sport ! :doh:I am sure the leading sporting bodies are up to there back teeth in anonymous phone calls & bitching on forums , & generally ruining the 'sport'. (Is it too much tv soap influence & the need to get out more?)
 
I think it's related to the increase in let stalking.
Seems to encourage greed in the thinly veiled name of 'value for money'. That and Stalking is the one of the new middle class 'lifestyle choices'. Who down the pub is gonna want to listen to the time they watched a woodpecker for over an hour or the two weasels playing or a doe nursing young.

I find the people most likely to share your ethos either are those who potter about on their own small farm or those who came to the sport the old fashioned way via the tutorage of a crusty old gamekeeper :)

However, the two can go together. There's nothing wrong with a bit of a killer instinct- it's often what drives you out of bed on a dank, freezing February morning when all that's bright, colourful and interesting in our glorious countryside is tucked up somewhere much warmer :D
 
sadly feller it went out with jumpers for goal post's! wish i was wrong but some chaps are still up for playing the game as it were
atvb
:old::tiphat:

think i'am lucky so far i'v never met a bad lad from this site in any dealings i'v had with them :thumb: so some of us are still left.

Since retiring I find myself out in the field more often than not , topping up the freezer , even if just for a walk to watch , enjoy & studying the wildlife around the estates I live. The other past time I find myself getting entertainment is flicking through the various ' shooting' forums ( I say this lightly as most seem to know so much yakety yak ,yet do so very little or understand the 'sport' ) & read the amazing tales from the real sportsmen out there who understand the outdoors in the fresh air & around various sites , as well as the reading the unfortunate childish jealousy from dreamers & novices , I am guessing new to the 'sport' with contempt for those with knowledge or doing better .

I remember not so long ago when you could trust a like minded sportsman, build a bonding & go for a wander ,as well as a shoot sharing grounds & simply managing the grounds to our & of course the land owners advantage , keeping pest to a well balanced level & the game healthy & breeding well.
Now I read almost & too much talk about is the ability to kill !! mainly without a reason why ? Anything a moron & idiot can do basically, so what happened to the bond, trust & the sportsmanship between us ? before it destroys our sport ! :doh:I am sure the leading sporting bodies are up to there back teeth in anonymous phone calls & bitching on forums , & generally ruining the 'sport'. (Is it too much tv soap influence & the need to get out more?)
 
Killer instinct I'm afraid is what every real hunter has, wether they realise it or not,........ it's a basic need if you are going to kill something for either eating, or just plain cos it needs killing. Vegetarian,(Bad Hunter):stir:.

Sportsmanship during the intended act of killing is an add on for those of us who can appreciate it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Yes I understand the kill instinct when hungry cold, or the need , due to damage or balance ,but for the pure hell of it ! No, sorry cannot grasp that, nor the bitching jealousy amongst some .
 
I'm with Paul'O having never had a disagreement with a shooting chum but some of the stories told are 'interesting' ... the trespassing nocturnal dog walker who encounters a gun who can't tell the difference between a fox and a labrador ... and the 'proper pigeon shooters' who just dump their vermin kills in the nearest large river. The countryside is certainly changing
 
I think we all too often see those who partake in field sports as honourable sportsman just as we are, as of course we all believe we are! What we overlook is that actually it doesn't make a jot of difference what our chosen common interest is, there will always be a representative cross-section of society who have (sometimes widely) differing beliefs, opinions, backgrounds, ethics etc etc.
Also, to ensure the longevity of our sport it needs to encourage new blood which are unlikely to come form the traditional methods as they are simply not as widespread as they used to be, and if we insisted that the entry into shooting were serving an apprenticeship with a gamekeeper/farmer then the sport would decline very rapidly.
Also, Lord Muck, I would suggest that forums are certainly not a reresentative cross-seciton of society and unfortunately have a propensity to display the unsportsmanlike side of things.
I am pleased to say that pretty much all the people I know who love field sports are sportsmen and do have a respect for others and the countryside that provides us with our bounty, and I would actually say on balance that all is good.
 
I know exactly where you're coming from, Lord Muck. It seems to be the way of the world these days.

BUT I have to say that all the folk I've had dealings with via this forum have been honourable gents through and through.
 
FB270 - I'd extrapolate your theory to be honest. It risks appearing elitist - which isnt the intent.

Sportsmanship is what the good hunters applied to themselves to prevent them lapsing over into being killers - which never seem to be quite so effective in taking game...

It is getting noticeably rarer these days - I think for many reasons and it is a sad thing to see. Very nice to see such a thread raised to both highlight and to remind those few of us remaining that we are not alone! :tiphat:
 
Near here it's Kill it before some other bugger does as there are so many about. It was the second point that jumped out at me.
 
"Sportsmanship"
It was always a bit of an esoteric concept , it still does exist but has undoubtedly changed over the years , it is certainly harder to positively identify these days .
I was going to say its diminishing is mostly due to money , but i am not so sure the more i think about it , I beat on a local estate in the season , there is an awful lot of money changing hands for the day but most guns still only shoot the challenging or 'sporting' birds , so money , not sure ?
Perhaps it is more to do with todays pace of life, where time 'to stop and stare' is precious and our ever more crowded island breeds sharp elbows and sharper manners.
Perhaps it used to be the preserve of the 'countryman' ? But there have been / still are notable' sportsmen' from the urban grime , more likely an inevitable consequence of a general disconnection from the countryside and its life cycles.
But don't despair , it still exists - you just have to look harder at what people type ,for it is certain a lot would 'say' things different from keys to spoken words ,and a forum page is no facial expression.
 
Last edited:
I am curious as to what your complaint is. For me rifle sports are a solitary affair on the whole and how I conduct myself in the field is my business. I do not covet others grounds and I do not poach. I shoot more than most but am a born and bred country lad. I am interested in all that keepers etc can teach me and am curious about everything new I see in the countryside. HOWEVER if I take the rifle out it is because I intend to kill. A morning/evening with the rifle that does not result in a shot is NOT a good outing, no matter what I have seen. I can watch nature around me anytime I like and will go on recces unarmed quite often.

As regards the web there are 2 different areas of problem as I see it and I classify it in 2 ways;

News Of The World; these are posts and posters who spout out any amount of crap just because they have read it before and they no more KNOW it to be true as anythinng else. They are simply in a race to reply forst so they spout out the first reply they remember having read before. (This is really dangerous for newcomers as hey believe half this crud). The others of them are simply looking for a bit of cheap entertainment by picking fights and provoking.

Middle Class Golf Committee; these guys are busy trying to establish some kind of crappy "faux" ethics on us all by telling us all how we should behave and what is expected of us when we are out. These guys are REALLY dangerous as they run the risk of undermining ordinary people carrying out ordinary shooting. Unfortunately there are as many Golfers as News of the Worlders sitting in their ivory towers and lecturing us from their holier than thou position.

All of our situations are different from how much time we spend in the countryside, how much access to land we have and how much shooting we actually do, never mind the reasons we want to do it.

I suspect the people you are concerned about will all be fly by nights, here today and gone tomorrow. Once the fashion changes and the bragging rights are gone, so will they be.

One thing for sure by the way, dont judge the state of our sport from the forums!!! What isnt crap written by Walter Mittys' has often been ripped off from elsewhere.
 
I don't know if I could ever class what i do as sportsman-like?
When shooting rabbits,rats,foxes etc I am there to do a job by protecting crops or game.I will shoot young and old in an attempt to make a maximum impact on the problem.
When culling in the park it's a case of selecting the right deer to come out for various reasons wether it be too many prickets or an old doe.And again in the wild I am there to reduce damage to forestry and crops.
If and when I get the chance to shoot game it is usually on a beaters-type day and although a high bird is very enjoyable to kill my old head keeper would always have us shoot any poor flyers(providing the shot was safe) as he was of the opinion that poor breeding stock produced poor birds next season.
As far as I can see the only thing I always try to do is do it as cleanly and quickly as possible when I do shoot something but I don't see that as being sporting
 
What is sportsmanship, I shoot deer, I will watch them if out of season while out after another species, mainly because it use to keep the wolf from the door, and habits are hard to change,I use to pick only good birds while pheasant shooting, why pay for easy shots. It was once said that I didn't, hunt,, but i was one hell of a fox/deer killer.
 
Going back to what crosshair 243 said in post #2 I think that money often has a part to play in it.

If you pay for a stalking lease or an outing you want to get your quota of animals off of it to get value for money. Granted not all people are like this but for a lot this is just common sense and I would be in the same boat. At the same time if you are a deer manager or pest controller you need to kill to do your job. I have never paid for stalking and have the luxury of freedom over some ground knowing that if I don't shoot an animal one day it will most likely be there the next.

Sportsmanship to me means taking what I consider a challenge. If its 'deaf and blind' and I can walk up to it or comes over and licks my face then I'm not going to bother taking it (unless ill) as that in itself is a story and I know far more people would be interested in what I saw while out stalking than the actual shot and kill.

On the other hand I shoot in a couple of paid game syndicates and fortunate enough to be a 'nae bad shot'. What is sporting for me may be easy or way too hard for others which I accept and I do leave the easy ones. At the same time I know some of my fellow guns abilities and when you watch some of them shooting easy bird after easy bird, sometimes at ranges some would cringe at, you have to question their motives (these are often the people I like to shoot the occasional good bird out in front of since they are greedy ba*****s! :D).

At the end of the day each to their own. My kids and novices that I take out will be persuaded more towards the enjoying the countryside and wildlife aspect and taking a few for dinner than the 'lets kill everything that moves' side.

At the end of the day it is all killing, its only the way in which it was conducted and what you take out of the experience that's the difference. Also for the less linguistically fluent, sportsmanship can sometimes be hard to convey in a forum post!
 
I think I understand the original posters point as well as many of the following replies.
We have to be killers in this line, it is after all what we go out to do. Sadly to some people, thankfully fairly rare in the real world, if not in "Forumland", that is the sole objective and no consideration is really given to why, where or when.
A desire or need to cull numbers of a species need not be unsporting, neither would shooting because we paid for it, or were being paid for it.
Would shooting several deer or foxes humanely at a sensible range be more unsporting than simply shooting one ? My view is that it would not. To shoot when a humane and safe outcome is unlikely simply because of an overwhelming desire to kill or because of pressure to get a number most probably would be.
Personally I am not in the least interested in trophies, but if a trophy shooter selects a good specimen and kills it humanely and safely at a sensible range but has no real interest in the other wildlife then I may believe they are missing out on an experience, but could never call it unsporting.
A humane and safe outcome of the shot is the primary concern, the gratification of the shooters desires is very much secondary.
We all shoot for different reasons.


I am a great believer in allowing people to do their own thing, "To thy own self be true".
 
Since retiring I find myself out in the field more often than not , topping up the freezer , even if just for a walk to watch , enjoy & studying the wildlife around the estates I live. The other past time I find myself getting entertainment is flicking through the various ' shooting' forums ( I say this lightly as most seem to know so much yakety yak ,yet do so very little or understand the 'sport' ) & read the amazing tales from the real sportsmen out there who understand the outdoors in the fresh air & around various sites , as well as the reading the unfortunate childish jealousy from dreamers & novices , I am guessing new to the 'sport' with contempt for those with knowledge or doing better .

I remember not so long ago when you could trust a like minded sportsman, build a bonding & go for a wander ,as well as a shoot sharing grounds & simply managing the grounds to our & of course the land owners advantage , keeping pest to a well balanced level & the game healthy & breeding well.
Now I read almost & too much talk about is the ability to kill !! mainly without a reason why ? Anything a moron & idiot can do basically, so what happened to the bond, trust & the sportsmanship between us ? before it destroys our sport ! :doh:I am sure the leading sporting bodies are up to there back teeth in anonymous phone calls & bitching on forums , & generally ruining the 'sport'. (Is it too much tv soap influence & the need to get out more?)

I suppose it partly depends on what you mean by "sportsmanship". To me, in this context, the "sport" part refers to a sense of fair play, not to competition. Stalking or fly fishing for instance or quite obviously not the most effective way of killing a lot of deer or fish. If that was what you wanted, you'd organise a deer drive into a funnel as they used to do in times past, or use dynamite and a net. So we impose degrees of restraint on ourselves, partly due to a sense of fair play. If you were lost in the wilderness and needed to kill to eat, you wouldn't mess around like this, you'd build some traps: maximum return for minimal energy expenditure. But we're not our mesolithic ancestors, we don't really have to do this, we choose to for a variety of reasons.

I don't think it's correct to describe any fieldsport as a conventional competitive sport. We're not competing against the animal. I suppose there may be an element of that in the case of a particularly troublesome and wily fox, or an elusive old deer, or that massive pike that you've seen on occasion, but you don't usually do a little victory dance over your fallen quarry. In a sense, when we go after the quarry with in effect one hand tied behind our back, we compete against ourself. We're trying to achieve something difficult within the parameters set by ourselves. It shouldn't be competitive in the sense that you're trying to shoot more deer than your friends. Of course it's fun to chide your chum because you caught a bigger fish, but that's by-the-by and not the main point.

Now beyond that, an individual's motivations for doing this sort of thing vary, and I don't think it's right to judge them as long as their behaviour remains ethical or sportsmanlike if you will. There are undoubtably those who just enjoy killing things. What you describe is I suppose quite close to what I feel, which is an aspiration to be a sort of pot hunter-naturalist, treading lightly on your environment, enjoying the full experience, not driven only by results. Not everyone feels that way, but as long as they behave in a way that's respectful to the quarry, environment and other people, that's fine. You don't have to spend time with them if you don't want to.
 
I think Pine Martin has hit one nail squarely on the head. It should NEVER be about competing with your peers. I think biggest dick syndrome motivates more than we care to mention ad it definately adds an unsavoury element to any pastime. For me killing more than the next man is irrelevant, as I already stated my shooting is a personal and often solitary thing.
I shot 102 foxes last year and I have to confess that I really wanted to get the 100th. Everyone said I would have to beat it this year, I dont care, I'll just keep on doing the job and what I shoot will be the total
 
Back
Top