Per this thread -
Which is purely for promotion of the E petition. Several people had comments/ points to make. That is what a forum is all about and no problem with that. But concerned that placing them on that petition thread would risk it losing momentum - or ( sorry have to say it ) things getting heated ./ closed as we all pitched in with our own version of a Mexican Knife ( Textual! ) and hence proving even tighter knife law to be required!
So can I ask you to place discussion/ comments here and if you feel able to support it then visit the other thread and follow the petition link.
I thank you.
Discussion posts brought over -
1.Wireless 23/6/13 05.15
The wife was a Scout Leader up until about 4 years ago, and the Scouts were legally allowed to carry a knife when using it for a task that required them, we always advised these lads, 10 and a half to 15 years old, that they should buy either a fixed blade in a sheaf or a lockable folding blade, we didn't allow folding blades that couldn't be locked as a Risk Assessment. On most occasions, they would bring them to camps with a backwoods element, or on a Troop Night if training in Knife, Axe, and Saw was published within the Programme. The knives were always in the Possession of the parents to and from the home to Scouting.
The blade had to be fit for purpose, and safe to use, the Scouts were normally handed the knife by the parents when they arrived, and had to hand them over to the Leaders on Arrival at Camp/Troop Night, when they would be stored in the Knife Bag until the training or work was to take place, and then handed back to the Leaders afterwards. Knifes were not allowed in the possession of Scouts Overnight in Tents, but on Overnight Patrol Camps they were held by a Senior Scout in a Knife Bag until needed. Years ago, these would have been worn on a Scout Belt at all times. Anyone found misusing knives was subject to sanctions agreed with parents, and might result in suspension. The knives were always handed over to the parents at the end of a camp/troop night.
We would show the Scouts the Relevant Laws regarding Knives, and they were all aware that it was a privilege of Scouting to use these as tools. The Scouts were more rigorous in preventing disrespect of this privilege by younger Scouts, because they knew that they could lose the privilege. I never saw a Scout who wasn't safe with knives, axes, or saws, they gave the tool the respect it deserved.
However, even though we were legitimately using them as a part of the Scout Association, and had a curriculum that included instructional training with knives, we were always worried about being responsible for a bag of 30 Knives (explain that one to an over zealous copper), and therefore a copy of the Legislation was always with them in the bag.
I would suggest that keeping a copy of the Legislation on your person, and observing similar caution regarding letting the public know you have them, but as a Deer Stalker I see no reason why you could be prosecuted for carrying a knife in the vehicle, even when rifles are safely away in the cabinet at home, since it is a tool for Humane Dispatch, obviously very much dependent on the situation.
As anyone that holds a DSC1 will know, you have a duty of care to relieve the suffering of any injured animals you might encounter at the roadside, if safe to do so, and as you'd not reasonably be carrying Firearms or Shotguns on coming across such a situation, unless called out by the Police or RSPCA, a knife in the glove box might be the only means to effectively follow legislation. You can't be arrested for being minimally prepared, surely?
Has there ever been any case of a Deer Stalker convicted or cautioned for carrying a knife? While Stalking or not Stalking?
I would suggest that an SGC/FAC Holder wouldn't likely be flagged up as a vehicle needing to be searched, since you're all Law Abiding Citizens, and therefore trusted, but there may still be a case or incident that I'm not aware of.
2. JOe-Bloggs 23/6/13 07.09
Doubt that I will sign.
If we had to carry a piece of paper for every poor bit of legislation...
I mean do we need to carry a bit of paper regarding transporting our firearms when we go out hunting? Or bringing a box of ammo home from the shop?
A 'knife in the glove box' commits the offence unless you are travelling to or from your hunting you will be in the do do.
Duty of care has been effectively transferred in law to the authorities as you cannot keep an outlawed blade in your car [a public place] so why worry? Let 'em deal with it.
You may find that plod and then the beak will not accept 'I had it in case I came across an injured deer' as good reason.
Remember even forgetting that you did not remove your knife from your car will not comply with good reason.
"Has there ever been any case of a Deer Stalker convicted or cautioned for carrying a knife? While Stalking or not Stalking?" - Irrelevant you are allowed a blade for use with hunting,
you have demonstrable 'good reason'.
You still may find that plod will confiscate your blade even while 'evidenced up' and that your bit of paper might only be of use if you need to take a dump and need something to clean up with.
Always remember the motto 'never interrupt a plod while he's making a mistake' be careful about waving a bit of paper in plods face - that may bite you more than you expect,
same goes for the 'shoe lace tying brigade' 30 blades in a bag with a bit of toilet paper for protection... A careful lucid explanation would suffice far better.
Your new long fac/sgc number will flag your vehicle as one likely to have firearms on board if they interrogate the PNC, hopefully they then will leave you alone.
Then again for the cynical amongst us - they know who to harrass...
As for the petition, like others it only identifies who 'objects' and achieves little, I would love it to actually do something but historically they are about as much
use as a fart in a bucket.
Time is better spent writing to your MP and even that is probably an exercise in futility especially if you have a lefty leaning tree-hugger commie pinko type of one.
The petition simply will not get the numbers to make it worthwhile - it's sad but true.
3. Eric Hamburger 23/6/13 09.10
What I can't understand, for example, is that is legal in the UK to sell the Victorinox Rescue Tool, which includes a locking knife, but it not legal for the owner to carry it.