Mentoring

steve d

Member
Hi,

I have a SGC and am in the process of applying for my FAC. Im asking for a .243 for deer and fox and a .17hmr for rabbits ( after much to'ing and fro'ing between .17hmr and .22lr).
Im in Hampshire and have about 400 acres to shoot on. I do have some experience of rifles but it was in the forces off the back of an aircraft carrier mainly-a world away from the experience i need to be considered safe with a .243.
Ive had the FEO on the phone this morning to book his visit-he's coming on Thursday morning. He said that the 17 HMR would be no problem, but there would have to be a mentor clause for the 243 to start with. He said i could do the DSC1 course but would still need mentoring to start with.
The problem i have, is that i know no-one with a FAC within 250 miles of Portsmouth(i hail from Yorkshire originally)
Is this the end of the 243 application or is there a way round this?
Obviously i would like to have something in place before the visit if possible.

Thanks in advance for any replies.

Steve
 
Steve

Without wanting to argue the rights and wrongs of these type of conditions......

It might not help you, but others have said that they have been asked to show that they have booked up some stalking with 'commercial' operators. On the basis that this might be easier to arrange, you might think about proposing this instead of a mentor, e.g. evidence of two or three bookings with letters to support. See if they accept that instead.

Just a thought.

willie_gunn
 
Hello Steve

I have recently posted off my SCG renewal and my 1st FAC. I don't have any land of my own or any shooting rights. I have being going on paid stalking as a client, and my host has provided me with a letter stating I can shoot with him as a client.

I have my FEO coming over soon and I don't anticipate any problems in getting the FAC. Having spoken with him on the phone he was happy I had gone to the effort to get the letter. As far as I can see the law simply isn't going to let someone lose with a full bore rifle without proving experience and land or as in my case going on paid days. It may not be ideal for you but its a start.

Cheers John
 
Not trying to stir up a hornets nest, but there is no legal basis for this "mentoring" business, three or four reciepts for stalking outings should be enough, always was enough previously. Steve.
 
If you are a member of BASC or one of the other organisations then I suggest that you discuss this with them. As Steve says, there is no requirement for 'mentoring' set in law. You may not wish to pick a fight with your local Police on your first FAC application but that doesn't mean you should let them ride roughshod over you. JC
 
Evenin,

Had FEO round yesterday to do interview and land checks, all went well with land checks-but would be restricted to shooting from high seats with 243 due to flatness of land (this isnt a problem). No restrictions with 17 hmr. He reiterated the fact that the Chief wouldnt grant the 243 without a mentor clause, which would be lifted after id shot 5 or 6 deer.
He said that the HMR grant would be straightforward.
I asked him about fox with the 243(i asked for deer and vermin) and he said there was probably a 70/30 chance(Hampshire police think 243 is "overkill" on charlies) of the 243 being granted purely for fox, with a view to sorting out the mentor at a later date for the deer.
He said there would be no mentor for fox!!
Now im confused-surely shooting a smaller animal, possibly at night, is potentially more dangerous than shooting a larger animal in broad daylight?
Hasnt the FEO got to satisfy himself that im not going to be a danger to the public?
He obviously doesnt think that i would be or wouldnt recommend to his boss the 17hmr and 243 for fox.
I spoke to Matt at BASC today and he says that ive got to speak to the firearms manager on monday as he thinks theyre taking the p1ss.
If i still get nowhere after that then to ring him back and let him know the outcome and hell phone the Manager.
Apparently Hampshire are well known for making up illogical "rules"-so ill have to see what the outcome is next week.
I was a bit torn between not wanting to start a p1ssing contest with the FEO and standing up for myself-after speaking to BASC i think it'll be the latter!

Thanks for the replies-much appreciated.

Steve
 
Hampshire are no different to any other force in "making laws" instead of enforcing laws, .243 winchester was originally designed as a do all foxing & vermin round, as illustrated by its minimum status re large deer , speak to your B.A.S.C. person show these people you know what your talking about & they will be more likely to work with you rather than against, is your feo /flo trying to steer you towards a .223 out of misguided thinking?
 
He's made no mention of 223 at all, just seems to have a problem with the 243......if used on deer!

Cheers

Steve
 
Steve d

Page 77 HO guidence to police clearly says .243 is ok fox. I'd point that out if I were you.

John
 
I feel sorry for you Steve, your FEO is clearly an idiot. Whats that about only using high seats! Since when did the FEO's have the remit to tell you how to stalk! Its like the DVLA telling you where you can go in your car! I hope that the BASC will get stuck in and make them tow the line. JC
 
I had exactly the same with Thames Valley on FAC grant - no restriction for foxes (which they did allow for the 243) but needed to be "accompanied by an experienced stalker" for deer. To be brutally honest, I wasn't blown away by the support I received from Matt at BASC - he seemed happy enough to advise on the rights and wrongs of the law (when I could get hold of him - he never returned calls etc!) but he was very reluctant to actually call the firearms dept and try and resolve on my behalf.

When I questioned the "deer specific" condition on my ticket Thames Valley decided they wanted a full mentor condition, despite the fact I'd theoretically been out lamping foxes for a few weeks on my own!! In the end, all Matt at BASC achieved was to delay to whole thing long enough that I got an experienced mate to write in and say I was safe and competent and the whole issue went away.

Have you got your own ground? Maybe there's someone on here who's close by and would come out with you a couple of times? Where in Hants are you?

Also worth asking your FEO if it has to be a single named mentor - that can make things a bit harder and feels like you're hassling your mentor, but if you can have two or three people (if you can find thme in your case!) thingsbecome easier.
 
I think youre right about Matt at BASC!
I phoned Mark Groothius this morning-Firearms dept manager, who basically told me the same as the FEO said.
I phoned Matt back numerous times today with no joy, left answer phone messages all day from 0900 this morning.
Finally got through to a.n.other in the BASC Firearms dept to be told that Matt left the office at 1600 and wasnt back in the office til Thursday late pm. This guy said to remove the deer off the application for now and get the experience and ask for a change of use at a later date.
So now it seems that ive cheesed off the whole Firearms department in Winchester, by going above the FEO's head, on the advice of Matt after he told me he would ring the manager today.
Fantastic-ill be lucky to get the 17hmr at this rate!
Ive decided to just ignore the BASC "advice" and pay for a few stalks with a local guy recommended by the local RFD.
I dont like just rolling over but cant be bothered with the aggro.
Anyone know of any organisations that will fight for our rights and not pander to political aspirations?
I think my £62 will be better spent next year.

Thanks for all the advice fellas.

Steve. :mad:
 
Sorry, just read your post properly this time!
Im in Gosport and have about 400 acres in Titchfield.

Cheers,

Steve
 
When contacting BASC firearms for advice, you need to speak to either Mike Eveleigh or Alan Booth, If your issue is of merit Mike will move heaven & earth to sort it, this is the reason he's so hard to get hold of on the phone, a lot of his time is spent in London dealing with stuff face to face with those that would have us all knitting instead of shooting/stalking etc;
 
steve d said:
Ive decided to just ignore the BASC "advice" and pay for a few stalks with a local guy recommended by the local RFD.

I originally sent a booking confirmation with my application, the FEO phoned me to say that would not be sufficient and told me to wait until after I'd been on the stalk and send him a copy of the receipt.
 
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