First Welsh Gold Roe

Putting aside the trivial political scrapping regarding Gwent and Monmouthshire, with regard to the geography Monmouthshire now is very little different from the previous county of Gwent and in deerstalking terms pretty much exactly the same. Monmouthshire is in Wales and, even before the creation of Gwent, rugby players (and other sportsmen) from the then smaller county of Monmouthshire qualified for Wales and had that not been the case the English team might have been substantially better over time. The previous county names stick, I lived in Monmouthshire when it became Gwent, I now live in Denbighshire in a place that stopped being Clwyd at the same time as Gwent officially disappeared but we still get letters addressed to Clwyd and many websites do not have Denbighshire as an option and only allow Clwyd, I am sure it's the same in Monmouthshire.

Turning to the location of the roe in question CIC described the deer as the "1st Welsh gold" not the stalker and, unless it came from Powys, then the current county of Monmouthshire is about the only option although there are also a few roe in Gwynedd and possibly also in Ceredigion, Flintshire and Denbighshire. There have been roe in the Forest of Dean for a while, (I saw one in 1968), my Freedom of Information request to the Forestry Commission confirmed that fallow, roe, red and muntjac are currently present in the Forest of Dean but only muntjac and fallow (and boar) are managed by the FC. The roe may have come across the river into Monmouthshire but may have also spread down into Monmouthshire from Herefordshire where they have been for at least 20 years. I know that there have been roe on the Welsh side of the lower Wye Valley for a while now, some stalkers are leaving them alone as they are not in big numbers yet and the boar are also well established on the Welsh side of the Wye and have been seen nearly down as far as Chepstow.
 
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Irrespective of what flag flies over Monmouthshire now and since 1974 Paul the county will always be a border county to me. With regard to sporting ties you are slightly off because some of the county associations actually retained the Monmouthshire title so that you could represent whichever of the two countries you wanted to. An example of this is the county rifle association, though few chose to represent England probably because competition was tougher. :lol:

You are right on the money as regards the deer and boar though. I would just like to hear a little more about the area that this gold was shot in, if indeed the story is correct and it was shot in Gwent or rather Monmouthshire to give the administrative area it's correct title and not the area that was originally called Monmouthshire (boundaries have changed considerably over the years).
 
Irrespective of what flag flies over Monmouthshire now and since 1974 Paul the county will always be a border county to me. With regard to sporting ties you are slightly off because some of the county associations actually retained the Monmouthshire title so that you could represent whichever of the two countries you wanted to. An example of this is the county rifle association, though few chose to represent England probably because competition was tougher. :lol:

You are right on the money as regards the deer and boar though. I would just like to hear a little more about the area that this gold was shot in, if indeed the story is correct and it was shot in Gwent or rather Monmouthshire to give the administrative area it's correct title and not the area that was originally called Monmouthshire (boundaries have changed considerably over the years).

Point taken but I don't remember being given the option of playing rugby, rowing or fishing for England when I was growing up in Monmouth, not that I would have even entertained the idea :D. I understand your concept of "borderland" and I also feel that "home" for me is the area of Monmouthshire, South Herefordshire and West Gloucestershire that together make up the Wye Valley/Forest of Dean and we were not particularly aware of where the national border was, however there is no question of me representing or supporting any country except Wales in sport. The fact that Monmouthshire was not officially Welsh until 1974 was probably down to a clerical error a few hundred years earlier.

My guess, and it is just a pure guess, regarding where the roe was shot was within a 10 mile radius of Monmouth, either up the Monnow valley to the NW or in the area of high ground above the Wye Valley in the Penallt, Trellech, Whitebrook area to the south of Monmouth or just possibly further down the high ground from Trellech near Llanishen, Devauden or even Chepstow or out towards Usk. I saw a dead roe doe on the side of the A4112 near Weobley in 1995 and saw tracks near Skenfrith about 5 years ago that I am sure were roe.

I had a brilliant plan 40 years ago when there were only fallow in Monmouthshire that stuck mainly to the Wye Valley and the larger woodland blocks. I was going to pay the landowners of any small wood (of which there are many) near Monmouth to get the deerstalking rights. They would have been cheap as there were no deer in the woods in those days but I figured that roe might eventually get there and as long as I got a long or first option renewable lease I'd be quids in. I never did it but the plan was a good one!
 
Nice plan Paul but I think that you would have been paying for quite a few years before it came to fruition. Your guess on location ties in with mine if the story is correct. After all that's the most logical conclusion. My money would be on the Whitebrook area if any.


P.S. My allegiances were like yours Herefordshire and Gloucestershire more than Glamorganshire and Wales. In fact it wasn't until I went to grammar school that I saw the Welsh flag for the first time. I thought that's nice what country does that belong to. I had only ever seen the union flag before, and of course the Australian flag when we lived there.
 
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Nice plan Paul but I think that you would have been paying for quite a few years before it came to fruition. Your guess on location ties in with mine if the story is correct. After all that's the most logical conclusion. My money would be on the Whitebrook area if any.


P.S. My allegiances were like yours Herefordshire and Gloucestershire more than Glamorganshire and Wales. In fact it wasn't until I went to grammar school that I saw the Welsh flag for the first time. I thought that's nice what country does that belong to. I had only ever seen the union flag before, and of course the Australian flag when we lived there.

I lived in Whitebrook for a couple of years, I actually caught trout in my garden, and it would be nice to think that there might be roe there as well now but given the roe liking for farmland and smaller woods I think it more likely that I would be seeing boar there now. I would have a punt on it being taken roughly on the line between Llansoy, Cwmcarfan and Mitchel Troy with the Penallt/The Narth area as first reserve. A member of this forum has ground quite nearby with roe (and fallow and muntjac) on it but as far as I know he's not taking any at the moment. We may never know where the buck came from as CIC only ever release the county where deer measured were shot. A medal sika was shot in Glamorgan a few years ago and I had no success whatever in tracking down a more precise area. I thought possibly adjacent to Margam but at the time they did not have any sika and the only other possible sika in Wales were what many thought were red/sika hybrids down on the Teifi marshes.

I hope this buck has spread his genes because it is a very nice looking head.
 
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Plenty of roe in the Radnor Forest, with more increased sightings in the Abbeycwmhir area. There was a good number starting to get established in the Hafren Forset but thanks to the FC they have now virtually wiped them out.
I watched and filmed a Sika Stag on the edge of a small woodland overlooking my home town in Mid Wales a short time ago. This was reported to the DI who said there was none in the area and that it must of been an escapee :eek:
 
I don't know if it's still the case but sadly the FC in Wales used to have a "shoot on sight" policy with roe.
 
That's my point CIC are tasting it comes from a county that dosent exsist they need to be professional and precise about everything if they re to be credible, I agree also on the areas I saw a roe by the priory in skenfirth many years ago so have no doubt that they are in Monmouthshire but never in GWENT now BLAENAU GWENT being the other 40% of the old county I know of a few fallow released there but never any roe
I lived in Whitebrook for a couple of years, I caught trout in my garden, and it would be nice to think that there might be roe there as well now. Given the roe liking for farmland and smaller woods I would have a punt on the triangle between Llansoy, Cwmcarfan and Mitchel Troy with the Penallt/Catbrook area as first reserve. A member of this forum has ground quite nearby with roe (and fallow and muntjac) on it but as far as I know he's not taking any at the moment. We may never know where the buck came from as CIC only ever release the county where deer measured were shot. A medal sika was shot in Glamorgan a few years ago and I had no success whatever in tracking down a more precise area. I thought possibly adjacent to Margam but at the time they did not have any sika and the only other possible sika in Wales were what many thought were red/sika hybrids down on the Teifi marshes.

I hope this buck has spread his genes because it is a very nice looking head.
 
There's no roe in GWENT unless he brought it here in a trailer & shot it in his garden!

CWMMAN
I shot a 6 point Roe Buck near Usk 15 years ago and as a few of you now know Gwent no longer exists as a county now it is all split up into separate county's as has already been said any way back to the Roe there are now a few Roe moving in and if we can manage them properly (says he who shot probably one of the first bucks seen in the area gained a bit more knowledge now ) we should see a few more in future years and yes there are some nice 6 pointers about and yes in the county borough of lets say Gwent for arguments sake so lads and lasses lets think about the management of the Roe in East Wales for a bit I have let them be on my patch for the time being any way happy hunting all

Paul D
 
its a vicious circle around Mid Wales to Radnor border and the Marches where the vast majority of shot roe are i'm afraid by the foxing fraternity under the cover of darkness. The saying at the game dealers is that most of the roe have got sun glasses on. :evil:
 
I've had Munties on my ground at Brecon for 10yrs but haven't shot any & they don't seem to have multiplied bet I have seen a few around Glan-Usk estate & Bwlch the last few years but no roe yet, saw 2 reds on another bit of ground I shoot above Bwlch about 2 years ago but think they were escapees from the welsh venison centre up the road & haven't seen them since but you never know, tin hat needed now for not shooting the Munties?
 
there are a few Reds near to Sennybridge and down the Swansea Valley but not escapees been around there for a good few years now
 
I keep hearing stories of deer around Mamhilad (between Pontypool and Usk). Initially the story was that a fallow buck visited the area, then a stalker told me that it was muntjac, lastly a police officer who also stalks told me that it was roe deer. I regularly walk the dog in the area mentioned and have never seen any signs whatsoever of deer but I'm keeping an open mind as regards muntjac because the area in question would undoubtedly suit them. I also know for a fact of muntjac being knocked down on the road not many miles from this spot.

As regards the reds around Bwlch and Glan-Usk (Powys) I have seen these in the past and a fellow member of our rifle club stalks in that area and says he has seen them fairly recently.
 
Yeah I know the ones around sennybridge but they don't seen to have spread however there was a report of a stag seen above tallybont reservoir on the moors but it just plain poor in Wales yet the valleys are the perfect habitat now heavy industry is gone.
there are a few Reds near to Sennybridge and down the Swansea Valley but not escapees been around there for a good few years now
 
I keep hearing stories of deer around Mamhilad (between Pontypool and Usk). Initially the story was that a fallow buck visited the area, then a stalker told me that it was muntjac, lastly a police officer who also stalks told me that it was roe deer. I regularly walk the dog in the area mentioned and have never seen any signs whatsoever of deer but I'm keeping an open mind as regards muntjac because the area in question would undoubtedly suit them. I also know for a fact of muntjac being knocked down on the road not many miles from this spot.

As regards the reds around Bwlch and Glan-Usk (Powys) I have seen these in the past and a fellow member of our rifle club stalks in that area and says he has seen them fairly recently.

It's interesting that the odd muntjac found dead was reported from the Llanvapley area on a fairly regular basis way back in the 1970s. I don't know how reliable the reports were or where the deer might have originated, it seemed very odd that they should be in what was then a very isolated area from other muntjac but the reports were from the local naturalists group at the time. My guess on the Mamhilad deer would normally be a wandering fallow buck coming over from the big fallow population around Monmouth but these days it could now easily be either roe or muntjac although they would be hard to confuse with a fallow buck.

There are reports of a few reds in the Abergavenny area, not too far away, but the main body of reds is as you say in the Sennybridge/Garw Nant area of the Beacons, they get down into the Neath Valley as far as Resolven and over near Usk reservoir and the last I heard there were estimated to be about 150 in total but they were originally escapees as are all reds in Wales. The other population of reds in the area is in the SW side of the Forest of Dean and they might have crossed the Wye. I recently heard of a big stag shot near Llangwm but according to others this might have been a recent escapee.

There are a few reds in the Welshpool area based on escapees from Powis Castle and according to the BDS maps, some down on the Lleyn Penisular and a new population in the Conwy valley but I've yet to see any convincing signs of these.

I agree with Gaz about the lampers getting many of the roe, we started to get a few roe here in North Wales a few years ago, they got as far as Bangor, quite a few were seen in my part of NE Wales again perfect ground for them, but they seem to have disappeared now and the story is that the fox lampers had them.
 
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We certainly have Roe with us around Penallt area and I know of someone on this forum shooting a roebuck around the Raglan area. We have seen Fallow around the Black bear area in Usk and I was talking to a farmer last week who said he had fallow deer in the orchard(owned by Bulmers) around Llantillio crossenny.

A farmer I know in Llansoy told me he has some Red deer that sit around with the Fallow on his land. He said his neighbour keeps Red deer so they may be escapees but they have been around for a while now.
 
We certainly have Roe with us around Penallt area and I know of someone on this forum shooting a roebuck around the Raglan area. We have seen Fallow around the Black bear area in Usk and I was talking to a farmer last week who said he had fallow deer in the orchard(owned by Bulmers) around Llantillio crossenny.

A farmer I know in Llansoy told me he has some Red deer that sit around with the Fallow on his land. He said his neighbour keeps Red deer so they may be escapees but they have been around for a while now.

The fallow in the Llantilio Crossenny area have been there for quite a long time, there were fallow on the Graig between Grosmont and Cross Ash back in the late 1960s and the hounds often used to move fallow out of a lot of the bigger woods in that general area.

I think the Llangwm stag I mentioned above was thought to be one of those escapees from the Llansoy area.
 
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