Anti Whilst Lamping : Very Odd Behaviour

Tomsk

Well-Known Member
Ive been shooting a permission now for 18wks on / off of two ajoining farms backing onto eachother; Ive undertaken the obigitory walk around to demonstate safe practice etc:
Agreement with both parties to shoot onlt rabbit as the place is crawling with them and nothing else for the time being; but deer and fox has been discussed for later. Plenty of daylight kills and will bring others in for ferreting

Last night; first lamping over this ground took 3 clean and safe shots; approaching kills to pick up when 'BANG' out of the blue an 'anti' with a torch in my face.... questioning, accusing, swearing - bl@@dy nutter !!
Apparently been watching for some time in the bushes ( the same boundary Ive been shooting towards !!! ) and started spouting about being me out shooting Badgers and that ( I quote ) 'you dont use red for lamping' - 'rabbits only come out during the day ... uh ?' .. 'so I must be shooting badger'.. and most incredibly ... was proud of the fact he had evaded my red lamp and claimed had I shot him that woudl in some way be a good thing as I'd get 'bird' .. ...

At this point I wanted to get the right hump; but unloaded; shouldered the weapon and kept my sticks at the ready as he continued to mouth off. and close the personal gap. and all I wanted to do was to turn and return to my vehicle some 1 mile off !! but couldnt for fear of what may occur incase back was turned.. !!

Managed after 40minutes to make the right 'noises' and comments to make him feel in control and that he had got his point over and 'taught me a thing or two', and he walked back to boundary with less wind and BS in his lungs. Kept eye to him to ensure safe to move, and took an evasion path back to vehicle
Returned to car with no further incident and spoke the farmer immediately to inform him, to which he patrolled in the jeep to determine if the anti was still about .. no luck

I know Im in the right, Needless to say I DONT and WILL NOT Shoot badgers, and was fully within my rights and the law in doing what I was about. Still extremely disturbing and will make me consider taking a 'wingman' with me next time with night vision to spot them by IR.

Im going to liaise with the farmer if we should involve the police, but must respect his wishes..

As you can imagine - Im shaken and can not think if I could have handled it better
Have BASC so might chat to them to ensure Im not missing a trick !

TOMSK
 
next time with night vision to spot them by IR.

Only answer.
I use my NV to spot the dodgy doggers and shadow creepers as much as I do the rabbits!!
I always spend 10 minutes having a good butchers around hedges and boundaries

far to many people out there at night in parks, golf courses and fields, cracking one off in the bushes, drinking buckfast or banging someone else's wife to start plinking bunnies without due diligence
 
You did very well. Now make a full written record of exactly what happened and what was said, together with a full description of the trespasser. Depending on what was actually said by the trespasser, he may have committed a criminal offence.
Try your best to persuade the landowner to agree to you reporting the incident to the police. You will then get an incident number for future reference and there may be a pattern of such incidents in your area. The police may know the identity of the person.
Reporting this incident should also provide you with some protection as having targeted you once, the likelihood is that further visits will be made by this individual or associates.
Good idea to talk to the team at BASC too.
 
How long will it be before we think we need to wear a camera to prove to the police that the inevitable made up complaint is a fabrication and there are no grounds to remove our equipment?
 
You sound to have done well. You should chat to BASC, why not?

Dont think the police would be interested but you should ring it in a get a log number because it will show there is previous and you have been the aggrieved party. Just a precaution in case he reappears.

It is a bugger and I have given up on a small piece of my ground as I was getting shouted at every time I went
 
How long will it be before we think we need to wear a camera to prove to the police that the inevitable made up complaint is a fabrication and there are no grounds to remove our equipment?

after having an incedent in a car this is what i have now a small bullet camera it is good for footage on shooting but will come in handy in an event and with all this badger lark can only see this getting out of hand .
After going through over a years worth of grief and court battles i would in future just record the incident either with the phone conversation or small camera ,not say a word and ring the police at the first instance some on here will rubish this idea but you have done everything correct i wouldn't not even speak to the person involved.
to op I hope everything goes ok and it doesn't go any further ,atb wayne
 
Why don't you just record what the guy says on your phone? Is that allowed?


​i bought a gopro for recording shooting but seem to use it more as a backup incase someone complains!
 
Only answer.
I use my NV to spot the dodgy doggers and shadow creepers as much as I do the rabbits!!
I always spend 10 minutes having a good butchers around hedges and boundaries

far to many people out there at night in parks, golf courses and fields, cracking one off in the bushes, drinking buckfast or banging someone else's wife to start plinking bunnies without due diligence

​Sounds like a good purchase :lol:
 
Firstly mate, well done for keeping your cool!

I've had a few issues with some locals that are anti shining tourches my way whilst I've been out.

I've also had a couple of larger issues, once I was out and the police arrived, telling me that they have had reports that there are some guys in camoflage running around the local countryside in a pickup shooting at stuff... I then had the usual checks done, all was clear as expected. I was then told by this one police officer ''its your lucky night I suggest you go home!''..... They cant have taken the reports too seriously as they arrived in a panda car...

The second incident different county, I had just returned home in the early hours trying to quietly put the rifle in the cabinet when the phone rang. It was the farmer who's land I was just lamping on the phone suggesting I'd like to pop back as the whole of the local constablary were in his yard including the helicopter above! I quickly ran back up there to indeed be met by a lot of police! I explained to this officer with the farmer next to me that I lamp this farm regularly etc etc... It turned out to be a report from a local that someone was running around the village with a high powered rifle bla bla bla!!! I explained what I was doing, everybody seemed to understand that it was a windup from an individual that had an issue with shooting... The gathering then started to disperse I again got checked out, as expected all was in order. I now have to let the local police know when im lamping that farm and we now avoid the field that is closest to the individual that we think / know complained house. I hope the police popped around and spoke to him about waisting police time but I expect they didnt...

Just a thought, would it be a good idea to let your FAO know about this encounter? They could easily turn the story so that you were shooting at them etc etc.....

Anyway all the best with it and good on you for keeping your cool.
 
well done for keeping your cool i would and have just called the police as the feller was commiting the act of aggravated trespass if he was not on a pulic right of way !! telling them you are in fear of your life and you have a firearm that if this chap was so inclined to he could over power you a be off with it :eek: ,that normly gets them out PDQ ,use the law thats what we pay for .
i would also and have use my phone to take film of the ranting clueless tosser's then gmail it to the officer if needed.
i will add i do inform the police control of my outings and a approx shutdown time if iam out lamping ,so its logged that you are in grid xyz .
carry on enjoy your shooting. i too now for some time use nv or just a nv1 with a 800masterlight for scanning it do's help when looking for jap snippers !! or dog walkers off the paths
 
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Hi,
as an ex police officer my advice is to create an official paper trail. Submit something in writing to the local intelligence department. Send it via recorded delivery. If the event that someone is accidentally shot by yourself or another in the locality this could go a long way to clearing yours or another's name.

On another note. Section 3 criminal law act says that you are allowed to make a preemptive strike if you feel that someone is going to use violence on you. If someone jumped out of the bushes on me at night I would have battered him as I would not be able to gauge his intention other than he had put you in a very threatened situation.

I would suggest everyone aquaints themselves with section 3 of the criminal law act as it can and will save you skin one day.


​ Ian
 
been advised by my FA dept to ring 101 and let them know where you are shooting - stops the en mass gatherings when some anti rings them.
If they know your there they have a chance to explain to the anti on the phone they are aware of your presence!
 
As much as I agree with using a preemptive strike I would be very careful in doing so.
I have used such a tactic against poachers and i have been on the wrong side of the law for that very reason too many times
 
+1
i don't mind a good up and down being a paddy :eek: but we are the soft target and have more to lose and you play into the hands of any lowlife flower shagger!!

Q[Aaronbott :been advised by my FA dept to ring 101 and let them know where you are shooting - stops the en mass gatherings when some anti rings them.
As much as I agree with using a preemptive strike I would be very careful in doing so.
I have used such a tactic against poachers and i have been on the wrong side of the law for that very reason too many times
 
As much as I agree with using a preemptive strike I would be very careful in doing so.
I have used such a tactic against poachers and i have been on the wrong side of the law for that very reason too many times

I am not saying SEC 3 won't get you arrested. But what I am saying is that when you know it you can use it. A couple of months ago my dogs weed on a patch of grass forming a grass verge at the side of the highway but outside someones house. A lady began shouting at me out of her house window. They did not own the land but they kept the grass short and did not want it scorching.

5 Minutes later a car comes bouncing across the waste ground a guy jumps out says "Don't talk to my wife like that again". He then punches me in the face.

I had 2 dogs on leads so my hands were tied. I dropped the leads and hit him. I stopped when he began to cower against his car.

By law I could have hit him as soon as he approached me as I would have been in fear of what he would or could do to me. I reported it to the police and he was invited in for questioning. Admittedly there were no witnesses and so the crown prosecution service did not proceed. But if they had, if I had drawn blood and he had made an allegation against me, there would not have been a court able to convict me.

He drove a mile round a village looking for me, he drove a sports car across rough ground to get to me, he literally ran at me when he got out of his car. All of this could give me reason to believe that violence was going to be occasioned upon me and as such so long as my violence is proportionate in that. I only raise my level of violence one step above his then I am ok in the eyes of the law.

Other things can work in your favour. Previous stories of people being attacked by sabs, the time of day, any previous knowledge you have of the person all work in your favour under section 3.

Man jumping out of the bushes and confronting me in the dead of nite. Smack him first ask questions later and yes you would be arrested but it would never go anywhere so long as you told the facts in line with Sec 3 of the Criminal Law act and this is where innocent members of the public fall down. Because they don't know Sec 3 they give far too much information away which then leads them to being convicted because they have admitted to going above and beyond it.


Ian
 
been advised by my FA dept to ring 101 and let them know where you are shooting - stops the en mass gatherings when some anti rings them.
If they know your there they have a chance to explain to the anti on the phone they are aware of your presence!

I'm sorry, but this is a waste of everyone's time. Apart from a few rural forces, pretty well every one of them will still send one or more cars out if there's a report of people with guns, whether those concerned have called in or not. As I go out almost every night, there's not a cat's chance in hell of me calling in until it's made law. Hopefully, I'll be pushing up daisies by then.
 
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