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Thread: Are we as entrenched as the antis

  1. #1

    Are we as entrenched as the antis

    This is going to ruffle a few feathers but lets keep it civil!

    Given the recent posts & comments it got me thinking are we realy hypocrites and as entrenched in our views as being right as the ANTI's are?
    We think that our way & best practice is the only right & proper way to kill animals, but many of us travel to other countries & use methods that would be frowned upon or are even illegal here such as bow hunting, or shooting under lamps in Africa, etc etc.
    We want the antis to compromise & see that shooting has a place for the greater good of wildlife but we do not always extend the same ethos when we condemmed something, we accept that the Stag hounds, & Buck hounds exsist and are part of our heratige, but then condemmed the dog boys & travellers for what amounts to the same & is no more or less humane, we criticise those who shoot deer with a lamp but accept the FC can do it, we preach the use of legal calibres then use different calibres when abroard or under the AOLQ rule for boar as .270 is merely a guideline, & many treat foxes with contempt and just shoot them allowing them to run away & die without a follow up shot or tracking to ensure a clean kill or dispatch, where we should treat all quarry equally if we are realy ethical but many don't.
    But we don't seem to be able to compromise and see that other methods are acceptable to some in the UK, but it is ok for some to do it if they have a bit of paper or are hunt members, or have a licence, dosent all these things make us a tad like the antis or RSPB we allow it if it's on our terms & people but condemm it if it's a minority view and not acceptable or known to us.


  2. #2
    All shooters are hypocrites to some degree as are most people, people who eat meat, wear leather but don't like killing animals or wearing fur etc(furs really just leather turned inside out). Even folk happy to poison rats but not happy to poison other things that a fluffier or taste nice provide sport
    But at end off day as long as u can sleep at nite and ur happy with ur morals

    The only 2 types of poeple who truely aren't hypocrites are either vegans, eat no meat wear no leather etc so perfectly entilted to object to me killing an animal
    Or boys who will slaughter anything does not bother with seasons, rare or not etc. pheasant any hieght, basically they really don't give a f**k about life. Would not really like to know anyone like that unless really hunting to survive

    Anywhere inbetween then ur a hypocrite to some extent. I'm happy to be a hypocrite and quite happy with my morals so have no problems lookin at myself before critisising others

    I personally would not go to another country and behave in a way i would not do here, just because someone has a different stanard or lack off respect for an animal it doesn't mean i should lower my standards to their level.

    I have no problem with folk driveing/moveing deer (if done right and not causing suffering) or lamping deer (apart from the fact forestry companies use it as a money saving device to employ less stalkers) but don't try to jutify the fact that those f**kwits were complete clowns were injuring deer had no respect for the deer landowners or anything.
    As far as i'm concerned they have brought shooting into disrepute and if i knew anyone in that video i would tell them not welcome to shoot with me again.
    Not a big fan off compulsory testing/dsc but if it stopped stuff like that happening i would be, i do think the legal side off things is very hard to prove but totally mystified how anyone can even begin to defend that.

    I do find it strange how u can even compare a stag hound pack to poaching scum lamping deer. Hunting wether with hound rifle or shotgun is all about etiquitte and tradition which are largely based round respect for the quarry and the land and safety. The only thing in common they have as both involve dogs.
    Do many stag hound pack followers bet on which dog will down the deer then leave badly injured it to suffer and die sometime?
    Do many stag hound followers after a meet go round and nick all the farmers quads where they have just been on his land?
    Last edited by countrryboy; 29-08-2013 at 00:27.

  3. #3
    Just because those are SOME people's views it doesn't mean they are everyone's on here (Or shooter's as a whole) and as with the anti's the views and actions of an individual shouldn't not be used to collectively judge a group of society.

    I would love to be able to Bow hunt, I would love to be able to be able to take deer and other animals such as hare and fox on permission with a good running dog. How ever such acts are Illegal and I will not be doing them, I choose to abide by the law and for anyone who doesn't then if caught must suffer the consequences (Such as losing there FAC, or whatever else it may be) ... I choose to abide by these laws but that doesn't not mean I believe they are right.

    This can be applied to many area's

  4. #4
    Everyone has different opinions about all sorts of things. It's what a free society is all about. I'm no vegetarian, but I would defend anyone's right to be one. Despite being in favour of stalking, game shooting, wildfowling, vermin control and fishing, I'm a little wavy on foxhunting.

    The difference between me and many people on here and the die hard anti's is that although I will express my opinions when asked, I don't seek to force them down people's throats, seek to outlaw activities because I don't agree with them and will listen to and can be swayed with reasoned and informed argument.

    The antis (mostly) don't listen to anyone except those who agree with their view, tell lies and distort facts to fit in with their vision of the world and quite often just simply are ill informed. I take heart in the fact that there are pretty few such antis in reality, they just get about a lot.

  5. #5
    CWWMAN3738, you raise an interesting point. An individuals ethics are seldom set in stone. Lloyd 90 made a good point when he indicated that a persons ethics are often constrained by Laws. That said, some peoples ethical stance permits them (at least from their perspective) to disregard laws.

    Cultural practices often dictate behaviour and what may be considered ethical in one society, may be frowned upon in another. In some Mediterranean regions, it's considered acceptable to trap and shoot songbirds for the table. I don't understand the appeal of hunting an animal purely for a trophy or hunting predatory animals. I don't condemn those who do though. At the risk of stating the obvious, different people have different motivations.

    The bow was the primary method of taking game animals for thousands of years. With the arrival of firearms, did this automatically render the bow unethical? Thousands of seal cubs are clubbed to death each year in Arctic Canada. Culturally and financially this is acceptable within these communities. There is obvious distaste for this from other quarters.

    The Japanese and Icelanders have a tradition of see where I'm going with this.

    The one thing for local regulations and training, is that, although far from perfect, it at least prevents a free-for-all, anything goes attitude (at least amongst the law abiding majority).

    Countrryboy is right too; morality and ethics are often a question of what you as an individual can live with.

    As an aside, have a look at this website:

    Justice with Michael Sandel - Online Harvard Course Exploring Justice, Equality, Democracy, and Citizenship

    It shows lectures by a philosopher called Michael Sandel who is concerned with questions of ethics and justice.

    Thanks for an interesting, thought-provoking post.

    Last edited by Cernunnos; 31-08-2013 at 04:48.

  6. #6
    Compromise?! The only bending when it comes to compromise is the country sports community. There is never any give from the tree/bunny huggers even when their stance flies in the face of science LACS deer for example.


  7. #7
    @ CWWMAN3738, I think that the field sports lobby are a fairly myopic bunch and who view the only right way as being their way. In this regard they are very similar to farmers, who spend far too much time talking to other farmers who share the same view point and too little listening to the wider view of, in the case of farmers, their customers.

    As I have said before, shooting will be banned or severely restricted because of the actions of a few and not by those of the responsible many.

    The shooting lobby seems to have a knee jerk reaction to unswervingly defend the seemingly indefensible just because it is carried out by one of their own. Again, like the farming community.

    It is no use saying that people don't understand (ie they have got the wrong end of the stick) or resorting to name calling when it comes to the opposition this is not how we win the argument. We win by presenting something acceptable and defensible to the majority and getting them on side.

    That said, I think BASC are doing a pretty good job at keeping our end up.

  8. #8
    I have to agree with you 100% , you see it in the hunting field, with people who condemn lamping foxes without looking into it , and the same goes for shooters who have never hunted. The worst people are actually on shooting/ hunting forums, but I must admit that stalkers seem to be the worst, with there deer are holy than tho attitude, some posters even give advice on shooting/ stalking etc, and then post asking what calibre, gun etc, as they actually have never done it. then spout on about how Dsc this and that, is all about deer welfare etc, when it mainly for most about getting stalking. yes we are all hypocrites , but unless you have owned a running dog, lamped everything that will run, stood on a crag, watching hounds hunt below, hunted squirrels with a 22, or legged it from a river bailiff with a trout in hand you have not lived.

  9. #9
    Money ruins sport. Whether its betting on a dog or selling your stalk to a client. I'm with you on the hypocrisy cwmman3738...... personally I'd sooner a local wide boy managed to outwit me and secure a fine stag (a more kindrid spirit) than I would prostitute that same animal to some overweight,businessman with mendle boots and a swaro rangefinding scope, who learnt it off the internet!

  10. #10
    We should certainly be taking the fight to them so an entrenching tool to dig our way out of our self-imposed retreat would be a start.

    Closed season for ALL UK varmints and not just fish, fowl and ungulates??


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