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Thread: Tb prevention. A hot spud if ever there was one.

  1. #1

    Tb prevention. A hot spud if ever there was one.

    Now I know that the topic of Bovine TB is current in uk with the Badger cull and all, and I am not an anti. Ob viously tb has to be controlled one way or the other. It is the "other" that I am asking about.
    As some of you will be aware, New Zealand has a probalem with Bovine tb, and the main vector is said to be the Australian Opposum. To that end, successive govt bodies over the last few decades have been using a method of killing wild possums/rats/ferrets etc that has to my mind is a bit of a sledgehammer to crack a nut type of aproach in this day and age. The following short video was made by well known hunters, the Graf brothers. I am keen to hear opinions from people other than Kiwis. Do you think that your govt would be able to use this method of pest control in the 21st century?

    Just off to put my flack jacket and tin hat on now.

  2. #2
    No Timbo!
    It's a national disgrace to use such compounds in any way.

    I think you have the same lamentable situation over there as we have here, beautiful country but Politicians with no morals, scruples or intelligence whatever.

    Hey Ho! seems a curse of the world.

    Was lucky to tour your country 10 years ago for 5 weeks in a motor home, did as much as we could from top to bottom, absolutely stunning people, scenery and wildlife!

    I didn't want to leave.

  3. #3
    Interestingly, 150 views and just one opinion.
    Maybe I should have mentioned that the way this 1080 poison is applied is by using chopper to drop in into our bush country, so in spite of GPS systems etc, it is not a very accurate means of doing the job. So it is not anything like the species specific methods such as gassing. It is indiscriminate in what eats the baits and dies because of it

  4. #4
    horrible stuff and not species specific everything that comes into contact is killed truly awfull. can i ask what the risks are to humans i have hunted in your country and have to say truly spectacular but being an englishman abroad tried to drink your creeks dry as i was not used to your vast landscape.
    does your government want to carry on using these methods?, atb wayne
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  5. #5
    Wayne. The science tells us that 1080 compound breaks down in water very fast, so no risk to humans from drinking water. Having said that, the operators who drop the stuff are given specific instructions to avoid streams...yeah right. I mean, you have seen the countryside for yourself, so will know how unlikely that is to happen in practice.
    NZ uses in the region of 80% of the worlds 1080 production in a bid to get rid of the critters, and have been doing so for around 40 years. A tb vaccine was developed 5/6 years ago, but they are dragging the chain in finding a way to use it effectivley.YES, the NZ govt is activley encouraging the contued use of 1080. The cynical among us would suggest that this could be at least partly due to some politicians having a vested interest in the production/distribution of the stuff.
    It is indeed a national, if not international disgrace, IMHO
    Incidentally, the same vaccine was trialled in Ireland for Badger control back in 2008, with promising results.

  6. #6
    tim thats some scary stats I am amazed you have not wiped out the population of most species dropping that crap for that length of time, is it a short life span from the drop or does it stay active in the soil.
    it looks a horrific and slow death and i hope you can stop the use as it does not seem right, atb wayne
    Discretion assured - call us anytime, free on 0800 689 0857
    please visit our web site:
    or find us on facebook
    Sponsored proudly by Pfanner, Blaser, Clark Forest, John Forsey sports

  7. #7
    indiscriminate poison dropping is not the answer the powers that be might get away with it in nz but the uk is too widely populated and full of too many doogooders there would rightly be a public outcry
    vaccination of irish badgers that's a laugh our dept of ag are on a non stop mission to eradicate brock with widespread snaring programmes taking place, nearly every sett i know for a couple of miles around our place is vacant !!! even the massive centuries old ones are dead and disused ,if it is continued at this rate we will need some of those clever badgers that can sneak aboard transit vans just like their friends the muntjac
    a barony original

  8. #8
    An extract from a paper on bovine tb. The New Zealand way

    This section gives insight into the approaches used by New Zealand to tackle bovine TB, why these approaches have been so outstandingly successful and the limitations associated with some of these approaches. It also refers to the visit which New Zealand made to the UK and Ireland when offering advice in November 2008. It offers an opinion as to what needs to be in place before England can start to make progress with its eradication programme and may offer an insight into what advice was given in November 2008.

    The following is an extract from an email received on 07Apr09 from Dr Paul Livingstone who is the Technical Manager of the Animal Health Board (AHB) in New Zealand. The AHB is an independent non-government organisation that receives 63% of its funds from industry and 37% from Government. New Zealand's annual expenditure for TB control is NZ$83m which is about 33 million pounds sterling. This works out at a cost per cattle herd to be about half of what it is in England.

    " New Zealand has made good progress with its TB control programme because we have been able to control our wild-life TB vector - the possum. There are three components to our TB control programme - Test and slaughter (with a high degree of intelligent retesting of test-positive animals based on epidemiological analysis); Movement control (both at a herd and area level) and wild animal control. The latter element has been the critical element that has seen our infected herd numbers reduced by over 90% in the last 12 years (now down to 126 infected cattle and 8 infected deer herds). There have been herds which have been overdue for testing in New Zealand, of which maybe one or two may have been found infected when they were tested. However, as stated before, the main reason for TB in cattle and deer herds in New Zealand is due to Tb possums. In some small localities, Tb ferrets may play a role. TB wild animals are the source of infection for >80% of our infected herds. The balance of infection is largely due to movement of infected animals with a smaller proportion due to residual infection in herds that apparently clear through testing but have an anergic animal left in the herd that at some later date becomes a source of infection to its herd mates.

    Over time, TB possums (and other wild animals) have been identified in 25 different geographic areas - that together amount to about 38% of New Zealand's land area. However, possums are a non-native (imported from Australia) conservation pest in New Zealand and thus we are able to kill them. As a result, we have eradicated TB from 10 of the geographic areas through targeted killing of possums. In those areas where TB possums are still present, we undertake control to maintain very low possum densities such that spread of infection from possums to cattle is significantly reduced. This is the reason why the New Zealand programme has been successful. We probably do less herd testing than in the UK, but what is done is targeted at risk areas. Similarly, we have strict cattle and deer movement control for those areas where TB possums pose the greatest risk to herds. These assist in preventing spread of infection through movement of cattle and deer.

    With regard to the UK and Irish TB control programme, it is possible that reducing overdue tests may assist in stopping the spread of a small amount of infection, but in my considered view, this would be insignificant alongside your main source of infection for cattle, which is the badger. I understand that you are not able to kill badgers in England, though Wales is attempting to undertake some limited killing of badgers and Ireland has a relatively large badger control programme. I understand that the latter has been very successful where it has been applied.

    Given that in the UK you are not able to control badgers, vaccination of badgers against TB appears to be your only option (vaccination of cattle has so far not shown to be efficacious). I note that your government is starting a badger vaccination programme, though catching and parental vaccination of badgers. The AHB and Otago University in New Zealand have developed an oral TB vaccine for possums. This is being managed by a company Immune Solutions Ltd (ISL). The vaccine is stable at room temperatures for about 4 weeks and is fed to possums in baits. In November 2008 we visited UK and Ireland to assess interest from Defra and DAFF regarding use of this vaccine for badgers in the UK and Ireland respectively. The oral vaccine has already being evaluated in Ireland and seems to be relatively efficacious in preventing TB in badgers. Further research is currently being undertaken in Ireland. Provided Ireland and the UK are prepared to undertake badger research to determine efficacy of the oral vaccine in infected badger populations sufficient to support registration of the vaccine in badgers in the UK and Ireland, and are prepared to then purchase and use the vaccine correctly, ISL will look to register the oral vaccine for use in badgers. As I understand, it will take about 3 - 4 years to gain sufficient information to register the vaccine for use in badgers in the UK and Ireland. However, to eradicate TB from badger populations through vaccination will mean annual vaccination of badger populations for some 4 - 5 badger generations or around 20 years - which is some commitment.

    The other main difference between the New Zealand and the UK programme is that in New Zealand, farmers fund and are deeply involved in all aspects of the TB programme. Representatives of dairy, beef and deer industries together with regional and central government elect the Directors to the AHB Board. All 6 Directors of the AHB are either farmers or have farming connections. In comparison, from my understanding of the UK situation, UK farmers don't appear to want to be involved - especially don't want to pay. Once farmers accept that they should pay, then they can start having a say in the form of the programme. From the New Zealand experience, it wasn't until farmers started paying and taking responsibility for the programme that it started making progress.

    A rather long email, which I hope conveys from some 35 years of involvement with New Zealand's TB control programme, that overdue testing is not likely to be the panacea that you were hoping for. I suggest that you should direct your attention to using all means at your disposal to keep badgers separate from your cattle until such time as you know though vaccination or other means, that they no longer pose a risk to your herd.

  9. #9
    Very shocking video, must admit struggled to watch some parts off it.
    Didn't realise 1080 was so slow acting, althou supose never thought of it before.

    Do the DOC use other poisons? (When i was down in fiordland last year signs up for Pottasium Cynide i think or is that just a different name for 1080) And would the NZ hunters object as much to other poisons or it it the wholesale ariel poisoning in general, which i can understand

    From the other side how else can u control the possums? From wot i have been told the possums do severely rape the forest's and kill the trees when number sget high (never knew they carried TB)
    The bush area of NZ is just so massive and inaccessable guessing would be almost impossible to control them by trapping or shooting effectively.

    Wots the point in having a vaccine for the possums? Would they not be better just putting poison into feed hoppers that only possoms can get into to andkilling them

  10. #10
    Very indiscriminate poisoning can't be right! There are other ways!

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