Case prep questions

Wingy

Well-Known Member
Hope someone can point me in the right direction as I'm puzzled with this one.
I cleaned, sonic tumbler, 30 Norma cases which have been fired in my rifle a couple of times, de capped, cleaned out primer pocket & dried.
Before I progressed any further I attempted to chamber them in the rifle they were fired in - 4 were very tight closing the bolt & 2 were impossible to close the bolt?
Case OAL is the same as the others that do chamber easy & I can't see anything obvious
Any ideas?
Wingy
 
I recommend that you full length resize your cases and then check the trim length. Regards JCS

May sound silly but I thought I was full length resizing them when I de capped them.
As I'm reasonably new to this I bought a 3 die set, 1. De caps and I thought full length resized? Not so sure now,
2. Seats the bullet 3. Crimps
How do I tell the difference between neck sizing & full length sizing dies ?
The set I have is Lee in a red case.
Wingy
 
May sound silly but I thought I was full length resizing them when I de capped them.
As I'm reasonably new to this I bought a 3 die set, 1. De caps and I thought full length resized? Not so sure now,
2. Seats the bullet 3. Crimps
How do I tell the difference between neck sizing & full length sizing dies ?
The set I have is Lee in a red case.
Wingy
the die will say on the side either FL or NS
if you are using a FL die you need to adjust it more so it does its job,just a little at a time until the tight brass chambers nicely,you can buy gauges to measure the shoulder bump from stoney point there called head space gauges,
 
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the die will say on the side either FL or NS
if you are using a FL die you need to adjust it more so it does its job, just a little at a time until the tight brass chambers nicely,you can buy gauges to measure the shoulder bump from stoney point there called head space gauges,

+1. I put a Tippex mark on the thread/locking ring so I can keep a close eye on the die as I screw the die in a fraction at a time. When I am setting up the die, I try one case in the die, if it doesn't chamber, I adjust the die again and pick a fresh case to resize. I repeat the process with fresh cases until I am happy the die is set correctly, I then resize the samples that failed to chamber.

http://www.hornady.com/store/Headspace-Gauge-Kits/

I have in the past screwed up by resizing too much (~8 thou) and this became apparent when the primers on the fired cases started to back out of the primer pockets.

Have fun.

JCS
 
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Just checked my dies none have FL or NS? What I have are:-
1) de cap and seizing
"LEE - 243 - G1

2) bullet seating
"LEE - 243 - J1

3) crimping
"LEE - 243 WIN - G1
Wingy
 
does die no.1 have a nut on the top?
if so it is a FL sizer

In general run the die down onto the extended press ram and appropriate shell holder until it stops, back off the ram and give it 1/8-1/4 turn more (Lee says 1/4-1/3, i prefer slightly less for longevity)
raise ram and you will feel it "cam over" to a stop
tighten collar



http://leeprecision.com/cgi-data/instruct/RM3508.pdf

more worrying is why fireformed brass from the same rifle with less or more sizing will not chamber?
did you run them through once? if you run them through twice on a standard FL die design you can cause neck/shoulder bulges as the expander ball pushed the neck it as it tries to go back in an already sized case


 
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does die no.1 have a nut on the top?
if so it is a FL sizer

In general run the die down onto the extended press ram and appropriate shell holder until it stops, back off the ram and give it 1/8-1/4 turn more (Lee says 1/4-1/3, i prefer slightly less for longevity)
raise ram and you will feel it "cam over" to a stop
tighten collar



http://leeprecision.com/cgi-data/instruct/RM3508.pdf

more worrying is why fireformed brass from the same rifle with less or more sizing will not chamber?
did you run them through once? if you run them through twice on a standard FL die design you can cause neck/shoulder bulges as the expander ball pushed the neck it as it tries to go back in an already sized case



Cheers for that it is the set as per the link & it is a FL seizing die. Some of brass was done twice, although sprayed with a small amount of Hornaday one shot lube some were very tight in the press when de capping. I ran these a second or third time which made them easier in the press.
May be this has caused the problem as you describe, but there is nothing obvious on inspection, not chambering "fireformed" brass is what had me puzzled.
Is there any way of correcting this problem?
Cheers Wingy
 
Is there any way of correcting this problem?

Sadly those with shoulder bulges may be goosed!
You can try resizing them further but on the Lee die you run out of adjustment (its what makes them easier to set up in that you can't bump shoulders back too far)

this is an extreme example: (note the ring on the shoulder

 
Thanks for the info, it's not as obvious as the photo you posted but I think this is what I've done.
Still lots to learn
Wingy
 
It's possible if one is careful to peen the bulge down with a light hammer on a plate/billet of metal. Light taps whilst rotating the case will peen it down. Running them carefully through the die them firing will remove the signs of it.

I had to do this with some cases for an obsolete chambering my forming them from another case using other dies caused the bulge. Once trimmed down my fire forming loads cleaned them up and no signs of the hammer treatment was visible.
 
SNIP
more worrying is why fireformed brass from the same rifle with less or more sizing will not chamber?

I have found this happens with body and FL dies that are not adjusted down quite far enough. As the brass is raised into the die the forward part of the body just below the shoulder is squeezed in first. As the shoulder has nowhere to go, it moves forward by a few thou. A correctly set up die will then move the shoulder back down again as the brass is raised to the top of the die. It sounds as if this die has not been adjusted down far enough.
 
I have found this happens with body and FL dies that are not adjusted down quite far enough. As the brass is raised into the die the forward part of the body just below the shoulder is squeezed in first. As the shoulder has nowhere to go, it moves forward by a few thou. A correctly set up die will then move the shoulder back down again as the brass is raised to the top of the die. It sounds as if this die has not been adjusted down far enough.

Thanks, I'll go back to the start and set it up from scratch.
Wingy
 
As the brass is raised into the die the forward part of the body just below the shoulder is squeezed in first. As the shoulder has nowhere to go, it moves forward by a few thou.

Is this not the process that all Neck dies use without the shoulder bump? (apart from collet ones)
even the Lee Loaders with "whack it" technology manage to produce tight necks without shoulder bulges
 
Is this not the process that all Neck dies use without the shoulder bump? (apart from collet ones)
even the Lee Loaders with "whack it" technology manage to produce tight necks without shoulder bulges

I'm not sure about other brands, but the Forster and Redding neck dies I used to use have only touched just the necks and nothing below. I've been lucky enough not to experience any bulges yet.
I now use Lee Collet neck dies for all my rifles, and bump the shoulder back with Redding body dies only as and when necessary. I bought RCBS Precision Mic headspace gauges to help set up the body dies, and it was then that I noticed the shoulder moving forward until the die was set deep enough.
 
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