Norma 232g Vulcan 9.3 x 74 Powder

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Evening Chaps,
Anybody have any idea which powder Norma use for this Cartridge.
I have existing rounds so I can work out the weight needed but not the powder.
since this is for a side by side double I want to replicate the Factory loading as near as possible.
Many thanks in advance,
Guy
 
Is the rifle regulated for 232 gr bullets or 286's. I'm not being patronizing, but I helped a friend develope a load for his Franz Sodia ( I hope I spelled it correctly ) in 9.3 x 74 using 270 gr Speers. It was also a double, but was regulated for 286 gr bullets. We eventually got it figured out, but it was a lot of work.

Actually, I'll phone Fred and see if he has some data for you. He's been using this calibre for over 30 yrs and has extensive experience with it. I'll talk to him and PM any relevant data to you.

Later , AB
 
Thanks Alberta Boy,
Yes it is regulated for 232g Norma Vulcan ammo that's why I'm trying to find out what powder Norma use.
Obviously it is easier to try and replicate the load it is regulated for rather than send the rifle back to be regulated for another round.
Thanks for your reply and if your friend knows what powder Norma use it would be a great help.
 
I'm sure that they would be using one of their own powders but I have done a little bit of replicating factory loads, most recently 7mm Rem mag 140gr TSX Norma factory actually.
What I did was strip a round and weigh the powder then look to their own data and find the correct powder that they used. In my case they had it loaded to the Max load for their own data but it might be 0.5 to 1 grain lighter depending on how they load it in my experience. Now I have no access to Norma powder so I had to find an equivalent powder, after consulting the burn rate chart I settled to looking at 4 powders in the same area. Next I had to consult quite a few loading manuals to find a similar load to the original. You are aiming for muzzle velocity, powder weight and load density that is similar to the factory load (the last will be quite important for the long 9.3x74r) if you can find something similar in a load manual you're probably on the right track.
Make sure to note you're muzzle velocity with a chrono and keep a target with a few shots at the regulated distance for reference when comparing your own loads, also note the order in which you fire as doubles can move the shot slightly depending on the order of fire.

I would guess that from the Norma data that something in the Reloader 15 to 19 range might be ok but you will need to be vigilant and very careful as no powder can fully substitute another. There is a book called "Shooting the British double rifle" that is very good at plainly pointing out how to load for doubles when no factory ammo exists and how to duplicate the original loads so as to keep the rifle in regulation, I think it even has some data on the 9.3x74r I'll try and dig it out if you need anymore help.

Regards,

Snag
 
Thanks 8x57 and Snagman,
Obviously I will have to start putting rounds through the chrono to get it right.
it does surprise me that Norma sell the bullet heads but don't supply the reloading data.
Thanks again,
Guy
 
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You say that Norma sells the bullets Guy, I take it that you were able to order some through RUAG and a local dealer or was it from Midway?

I can understand them not sharing the actual load data because factory ammo will normally be loaded towards the top end and they have total control of all the components when loading in the factory. However if a reloader decided to substitute components then that could be a whole different ball game. It's just a matter of liability really.

You mention that you have a side by side, it wouldn't happen to be a Chapuis would it because I have one of these in 9.3x74r. If it is a Chapuis and it shoots like mine you won't have any difficulty developing a suitable substitute load for it. My rifle seems to regulate fairly well with almost all loads that I have put through it. I just wish that my 8x57irs over and under (Zoli) was the same, that is an absolute nightmare to develop loads for where both barrels produce an acceptable single group at 50 metres. I usually get good groups from both barrels but the group from the bottom barrel is almost always low and right of that from the top barrel yet I know that when using factory 196 grn Norma Oryx ammo it will produce a single 45mm group at 50 metres. Initially I tried duplicating the factory load for that but hit the same snag as you with regard to Norma powders.
 
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Snagman it sounds easy when you put it like that. In fact the way that you describe is exactly how I have been doing it for a few years now in an effort to find a "duplicate load" for my 8x57irs over and under.

It can be a bit frustrating though as bullets are not that common in gun shops in 8mm and data in this country on the 8x57irs isn't that forthcoming, though I do have a much better grasp of the situation than I did initially. I must have put quite a few hundred rounds down range and over the chronagraph with this rifle in an effort to find the magic load that matches factory ammo yet is cheap to reload. It's been an interesting project so far that I am sure will continue to amuse me for some time to come. That's the joy of reloading for a double I suppose. LOL

I have looked at the book you mention several times and have been sorely tempted to buy a copy but that would be cheating, it would probably spoil my whole enjoyment of experimenting with different loads in this calibre. LOL I suppose I will relent one day and actually buy a copy especially if I see it at a discounted price somewhere, I am after all a bit of a tight arse. What my father used to refer to as a Welsh Jew. :lol:
 
can you not develop loads for the top barrel and loads for the bottom barrel in the same way you match POI for loads of different charge/bullet in a single barrel?

might be a pain but if it is proving tricky to get one load that shoots well out of both it could be easier to find one that shoots well out of one and another that does the same

I would really like to get hold of some Norma components
 
No Brewsher I wouldn't want to mess about with different loads for different barrels as that would only lead to confusion.

I do have couple of loads that work, the one is a 220 grn Sierra Gameking bullet for boar and the other is a 175 grn Hornady S.P. for deer. The boar loads will produce converging groups from the separate barrels at 50m that are quite acceptable but not quite as good as the 196 Oryx factory load, I know that this load works because I have used it.
The deer load produces 1" or slightly less groups at 100 yards from the top barrel and I zero my scope for this. Unfortunately the two groups from the two barrels are slightly apart at 50m so I would limit any second barrel shot to 50m or less. I simply normally use the rifle as a single shot rifle when deer stalking. I am fortunate in that this rifle has a selective trigger hence using the top barrel first with the scope for distance because the barrel is closer to the scope as opposed to the normal arrangement of shooting the lower barrel first.

P.S. I only use this rifle in woodland where distances will be 100 yards at most.
 
8x57, I just read my own post wow I did make it sound easy didn't I!!! Yeah as you said it does take quite a bit of effort to duplicate the load, that 7mm RM load took me quite a while for a bolt gun let alone what your 8x57r in a double would take. With regards to the book I got it through Safari Press from stateside and since the dollar isn't terribly high right now i think i got it for about £20 but delivery wasn't very cheap.... If you're ever up on the NW coast of Scotland PM me and I'll give you a shot of it.

It's just such a pain we don't have easy access to Norma reloading components, I would do almost anything to get a batch of 204 powder for my .270, how the hell do those norma engineers squeeze 3000 fps out of my little 20" barrel, it's the one thing I never managed to duplicate I could nearly match the speed but accuracy went out so I settled for superior accuracy at slightly slower speed. The deer don't seem to mind though.
 
I prefer accuracy over velocity also Snagman, and in any case I would rather not stress my guns by operating at full throttle constantly especially so in the case of my break action rifles. Like you say the deer don't seem to mind. Just enough to do the job with no fuss and bother (excess flash and noise).

To be quite honest the book isn't that expensive in this country really, perhaps I just need to do things the hard way. It seems to be the way that I have learned most things.:oops:
Maybe I can persuade the wife to buy me the book for Christmas to add to my little reference library.
 
I talked to Fred and he recommended RL-15, Varget or vv-n140.Unfortunately he has no data for the 232 gr bullets as he usually sticks to the heavier bullets. I know how you feel, I miss the Norma powders. They've always been sporadic in distribution at best, but lately they've become unobtainable. Sorry I couldn't have been of more help.

AB
 
I talked to Fred and he recommended RL-15, Varget or vv-n140.Unfortunately he has no data for the 232 gr bullets as he usually sticks to the heavier bullets. I know how you feel, I miss the Norma powders. They've always been sporadic in distribution at best, but lately they've become unobtainable. Sorry I couldn't have been of more help.

AB
Thanks Alberta Boy,
Will get it sorted using the Chrono, just trying to find the easiest way.
Cheers,
Guy
 
By the way 8x57, yes it is a Chapuis Rex 9.3x74and yes I am very happy with it.
Lovely rifles and very affordable for the quality.
Hope you feel the same about yours.
Guy
 
I only have the cheaper UGEX but still a quality rifle with a lovely bit of AA grade walnut. They shoot and mount real nice to.
I'm very happy with mine Guy. If I could afford it I would have a collection of Chapuis rifles.
 
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