emergency number 112

countrryboy

Well-Known Member
i was reading this weeks shooting times and in athe letters pages someone says that 112 can be dialed from a mobile in emergencys even when no normal signal and the singnal can be tracked and triangleated to find exactlly where u are.

does anyone know if this is true
i only doubt it slightly as i have worked on many jobs(pipelines, forestry,railways, roadbuilding)and done a few courses(chainsaws,railway/pipeline safety) and sat and avoided sleeping throu many a safety lectue by the health and safety natzi's, and almost always in areas with a bad signal and no one has ever mentioned it before, which would surprise me if it worked.

if anyone knows if this defo works it would be good, it would prob be good to advertise it a bit too as most of us will either work or stalk in areas with no signal, incase we ever need it.
cheers
 
i was only told about it on a course today,one thing it does do if you dial the number and the network is busy it will knock someones line dead so you can get into the network.
 
As far as I am aware dialing 112 will open up any available network so you can get help from the emergency services but there must be some network coverage by one of the network providers.
Total dead zone or underground eg caving it will not work
 
This is what I have been lead to believe...............Please correct me if I am wrong guys but I'm not a technical expert !

The mobile phone making the call can be tracked / traced to within 100 mtrs (ish) using triangulation from the nearest/strongest mobile mast and/or masts.

Mobile masts have numerous aerials (6-8 ish) positioned so as to give a 360 degree coverage (unlike T/V masts which basically only have 1 aerial)

Next time you pass a mobile mast have a good look and you will see that they have numerous receivers/transmitter dishes (they are oblong and vertically positioned)

You don't need satellites to make the system work.

It's basically how you get your position fixed using a mobile phone which are sometimes described as being GPS (but aren't really)

Hence the reason that when making an E call they request that you keep the line 'open' so that triangulation data can be gained.

It's an 'across platform' system which means that when you make an E call it will use any available service provider's aerial and/or system network to connect and maintain the call.

It's how they track the drug dealer's mobiles. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Regs

Rocky
 
Rocking god: I don't think the technology is that good! A few years back I was peripherally involved in a system in the US that was designed to track mobiles without requiring GPS. Not sure my knowledge is particularly current, so take this with a pinch of salt. The requirement came about after an incident whereby someone got trapped in a car, rang emergency services, but they were not able to reach them in time because they had no idea where they were. So in the US, any mobile must be able to give it's location to within something like 100m. More in wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enhanced_911

Anyway, the technology I was involved with supposed to locate you by monitoring the time that the cell broadcasts were received. This needed extra hardware at the base stations for timing purposes. In the end, the results were not good enough and project got canned and they went with GPS instead.

My point is this: AFAIK such hardware does not exist in the UK network and technology was not made to work well enough, so I would be very surprised if they could pinpoint you within 100m.

BUT, that depends on where you are: mobile phones work by having cells, they can tell definitely which cell you're in, which if you're in a city centre, then that would be quite a small area say less than 100m. Out in the middle of nowhere, then cells could be 60Km across...

As for 360 degree coverage: yes that's possible, but usually although base stations transmit in all directions, typically it's divided into 120 degree segments per transmitter. However you can get lamp post sized ones that really are 360 degree that cover small areas. When I say lamp post, they really are disguised as lamp posts. You can also get base stations disguised as trees, you just have to know what to look for!

As for 112, I was under the impression that it's designed to be the same as 999 in the UK, the difference being that it will work in any country, you don't have to know the emergency number for the country you are in.
 
112 was supposed to be the emergency number that would be the same throughout the whole of the European union and was introduced piggy back fashion to 999 many years ago (at least 25) but not widely advertised.
It is not that long ago that certain remote parts of the U.K. were still not connected to the 999 system, never mind rolling out the 112 system.

I am only guessing but possibly it is because the E.U. is constantly enlarging that a common emergency number has not been introduced, or could it be that the various member states have not been able to reach agreement on which number to use?
 
thanks for all the very knowledgeable replies

unfortunately some off them went straight over my head.
so if the brown stuff hits the fan in the back o beyond ur still better with 999 but if no signasl u might have a slightly better chance on 112, but u still need a faint signal from 1 provider, and u still have to have a fair idea of where u are as it cant track u exact enough to send the calvery?(spelling)to help.
does that sound about rite in very basic terms.

the fella who wrote the letter to shooting times had been told ot on a course too. i must admit if it was as good as made out the health and safety boys would be all over it and the amoount off health and safety briefings and courses i've done i would have thought someone would have mentioned it.
thanks again for all the replies
 
I think the guy who wrote in to Shooting Times was either misinformed or misunderstood. 999 and 112 are interchangeable and come up in the exchange in almost the same way.
I am not up to date on the tracking systems but had serious doubts when I read the story.
As regards a signal for a mobile phone, if the signal is poor or non existant it doesn't matter what number you dial you won't get through.
 
You can download an 'app' from google which uses phone masts to place you on a 'map'. I have done this on my blackberry because it's a model that has not got a built in GPS. it isn't the most accurate but it's within 200m.
I guess this uses the phone and masts to get a 'fix', so they must be able to track a mobile phone?

Jonathon
 
I remember a story about someone who got rescued by SMS when reception was not strong enough for a call.
 
243varmint said:
You can download an 'app' from google which uses phone masts to place you on a 'map'. I have done this on my blackberry because it's a model that has not got a built in GPS. it isn't the most accurate but it's within 200m.
I guess this uses the phone and masts to get a 'fix', so they must be able to track a mobile phone?

Jonathon

Almost certainly done on identifying which cell your phone is using and matching it to the coverage map... Have you tried in the middle of nowhere? It might be able to tell you which county you're in :lol:

There is a certain motivation for mobile operators to relay information about where you are: think targeted advertising, also shops etc registering with mobile operators so that you can ask your phone where the nearest pub / petrol station is, you'll get the one that's paid the most money. :evil:
 
Think people may be getting confused between GPS(Global Positioning System) and GPRS (General Packet Radio Service).
GPS satalites are used to locate your position Eg Using your Satnav.
GPRS is a system that your phone uses for the transmission/reception of data Eg MMS,IM,Internet.

All the phones at work are on the GPRS and a Manager can log on and find where we are, not pin point but near enough :cry: :cry:
 
112 works from any mobile with or without sim card or credit.
As long as at least one provider has connection with the phone.
If the phone shows no reception it could have reception with the 112 number.

edi
 
This whole 112 thing is a load of pish - total rubbish. I couldn't believe that letter won letter of the month (and some sort of prize!!) in Shooting Times.

112 has exactly the same function as 999. There are no circumstances where 999 won't work but 112 will!

It is only very recently that there has been an agreement that if you have no signal on your network then you could use any UK network. This happens with either 999 or 112. If there is no signal on any network you can't make a call!

Ofcom allows emergency roaming
October 16, 2009

Regulator has pushed resolution to allow 999 calls to roam onto another network if a user's own network has no coverage in the area they are calling from

Ofcom has announced that mobile phone users will now be able to call emergency service numbers 999 and 112 from another network if their own network is unavailable. This was previously not the case.
 
Being an actual "elf and safety nazi", and a signal and telecommunications engineer to boot, a lot of what has been said is correct:any modern phone can be located, how closely depends on the concentration of cells/ masts (the closer the cells/masts the narrower the triangulation) in cities it can be closer than 20m. There is a difference between GPRS and GPS, but a GPS phone will switch to GPRS if it cannot obtain a strong enough satellite signal.

112 will eventually become the emergency number, partially to bring us into line with other countries, partially because of the muppets who call 999 for instructions to tune in their DVD, but mainly because, with the advent of phones becoming almost universally push button, it will stop people making spurious phone calls by resting the phone against something, in the car, home or even your pocket. If you press and hold the 9 button on your phone it will call the Emergency Services, it is a lot harder to dial 112 by mistake.

If you have a mobile phone which is locked to a supplier, it will contact that network for an emergency call, even if you have no credit, or have cancelled the sim card, and as said, it has recently been arranged that it will contact any provider (another reason for the 112 as dialing 999 in another country would almost certainly be pointless) in the event that a signal is not available on its home network. I presume this now works on unlocked phone as well.
 
interestingly, when the discussion over the number happened, there was a survey that came back that a lot of kids thought the emergency number was 911, from watching american cop shows. There was talk of activating that as an alternative emergency number, thus coming into line with north america and most of western europe
 
I have just come across this post with the 112 999 or what ever you do need a signal but another good use for the phone in the event of a problem was some of the contract work I tender for now requires you to have on place health and safety procedures for Loan workers http://www.hse.gov.uk/contact/faqs/workalone.htm in respect to contract work you become a contractor or self employed therefore you must have in place a policy on health and safety policy of your own HSE leaflet on loan working as part of my HS policy that I have to submit is my risk assessments for loan working. I went in this a number of years ago as I worked on an estate that I was one of 7 keepers and other employees because they had more than 5 employees they had a very strict HS policy this covered loan working. this was one of the best as we were subject to a HSE investigation after a serious incident.

When I set up on my own my insurance asked to see my HS policy and they did ask about loan working and as this is one of the biggest risks what control measures had I in place the easiest way around it was I have 3G phone with GPS built this gives me a Mobile positioning, i.e. location based service that discloses the actual coordinates of a mobile phone I am carrying in also a 3G phone has GSM which allows for Mobile phone tracking tracks the current position of a mobile phone even on the move. To locate the phone, it must emit at least the roaming signal to contact the next nearby antenna tower, but the process does not require an active call. GSM localisation is then done by multilateration. Multilateration, also known as hyperbolic positioning, is the process of locating an object by accurately computing the time difference of arrival (TDOA) of a signal emitted from that object to three or more receivers. It also refers to the case of locating a receiver by measuring the TDOA of a signal transmitted from three or more synchronised transmitters. Multilateration should not be confused with trilateration, which uses distances or absolute measurements of time-of-flight from three or more sites, or with triangulation, which uses a baseline and at least two angles measured e.g. with receiver antenna diversity and phase comparison. Based on the signal strength to nearby antenna masts. This is all well and good BUT YOU DO NEED A SINGNAL. If I am out on my own I all ways ring home at or by a predetermined time if I don’t ring in Emma gives me 90 minutes to call her then she will track my phone from its last signal it via http://www.traceamobile.co.uk/index.php just means I can’t sneak off to the pub
 
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