The future

howa243

Well-Known Member
Am interested to know what folks think about the future of stalking. We are a small island with a rapidly increasing population. We are lucky to have several species of deer that seem to be increasing in number too. But stalking appears to be growing in popularity beyond the ability of the sport to embrace these new entrants. This will lead to prices going up, and to 'stalking' becoming merely sitting in high seats.

Where are we going?
 
IMHO the answer is downhill fast with the influx of migrants from the EU & other countries deer will be seen & taken as a food source, we have already seen it with prized carp in angling lakes being wiped out by eastern Europeans for food ans the police are unwilling or unable to control or stop it & the same will happen to deer I already see Russians & Polls with bull greyhounds running down deer at night with dogs & the police are just not interested one officer told me they are discouraged from taking migrants into custody because of the costs involved & the unlikelyness of them answering bail & being traced or charged so it is seen as a waste of resources, so the future isn't looking good if you ask me!
The few places that are keepered full time will survive but that will inevitably drive costs up.
 
An interesting question that could as equally be applied to other fieldsports. A lot will depend on politicians (scary). Whether green belt building becomes widespread, whether immigration controls become effective and of course any laws that may be passed restricting shooting sports in one way or another. Things that may happen that are totally unforeseen could have a bearing too. The most recent shooting related horror stories in the UK, involving Raul Moat and Derrick Bird brought reasonable and proportionate responses from government, but if there's too many more, or the government changes, things could be different.

My personal view, all things being equal, is that things will continue along much as they have. There will be poor times and better times, but mostly things will carry on as they have for the last century and more.

It's interesting to note that killing things in general and in particularly if you enjoy it is widely condemned in many circles yet, as the OP says, there's always a steady stream of newcomers to shooting. I wonder what would happen if the idea of shooting for food became much more PC in the future. Would we then be totally inundated with people wanting to have firearms and go stalking?
 
i think the deer will suffer for it , we have already seen a drop in quality of fallow bucks , all the big master bucks are gone , the problem being fallow roam over such large areas that everyone shoots "just one for the wall" and with more and more stalkers in the country the bucks arent getting to a mature age . Roe will be next , we see posts on here about a nice buck being seen and replys like "shoot him before your neghbours do" or "take him out , his genes are already in the pool" . Shooting any buck is like felling a tree , easy done but your along time waiting for the replacement to grow . With does , far too many are shot too early , with roe the kids need their mother right through winter to show them the way through the lean months . Next are the cash shooters , taking ever animal they can to sell to the dealer . Lets all just ease up on the bucks , do you really need another trophy or a medal ?
 
IMHO the answer is downhill fast with the influx of migrants from the EU & other countries deer will be seen & taken as a food source, we have already seen it with prized carp in angling lakes being wiped out by eastern Europeans for food ans the police are unwilling or unable to control or stop it & the same will happen to deer I already see Russians & Polls with bull greyhounds running down deer at night with dogs & the police are just not interested one officer told me they are discouraged from taking migrants into custody because of the costs involved & the unlikelyness of them answering bail & being traced or charged so it is seen as a waste of resources, so the future isn't looking good if you ask me!
The few places that are keepered full time will survive but that will inevitably drive costs up.

Are you serious turning this into an immigration thread?
 
I worry for the deer in the future.
There seems to be more and more people entering the sport of deer stalking.
Stalking leases have become steadily more expensive and people wanted bang for their buck. On top of this stalking is often gained through knowing someone and is free. These two tallied together make for difficult conditions for deer. Add on to this that stalkers jealously guard the whereabouts of their ground and do not liase with their neighbours, compounds the problem even further. Then factor in the unrestricted nature of shooting sports, (inasmuch as you there are no bag limits) and we have a recipe for disaster.
Example
Neighbour A pays a lot for his ground and knows that neighbour B and C also shoot. He wants to see some sort of return on his money so shoots away, guessing what his cull figure should be, as he will not speak to either neighbours and therefore has no clue as to what they shoot.
Neighbour B gets his land for free. He shoots a few as the landowner likes to see them but doesn't want too many. He makes a few quid as he sells them to the gamedealer. He doesn't tell anybody about his land for fear it will get taken off of him by someone with money.
Neighbour C hates them and shoots them himself on sight. He also takes them to the gamedealer.
I forgot Neighbour D. He's a bunnyhugger :rofl:

Neighbour A an C are shooting hell out of the deer population. Neighbour B kicks the bloke off his land as he thinks he's shot too many and the deer are reduced to a mess of nocturnal jumpy poacher fodder.
Neighbour D just sits in the corner and cries :rofl:

Ask our Danish friends what shooting is like over there. It'll scare the hell out of you.

And yes the above is happening. Thankfully not to me.
 
most bullx lurchers come from tuther side of the severn , and one of the latest tricks when challenged seems to be to reply "polski" and keep walking
 
I worry for the deer in the future.
There seems to be more and more people entering the sport of deer stalking.
Stalking leases have become steadily more expensive and people wanted bang for their buck. On top of this stalking is often gained through knowing someone and is free. These two tallied together make for difficult conditions for deer. Add on to this that stalkers jealously guard the whereabouts of their ground and do not liase with their neighbours, compounds the problem even further. Then factor in the unrestricted nature of shooting sports, (inasmuch as you there are no bag limits) and we have a recipe for disaster.
Example
Neighbour A pays a lot for his ground and knows that neighbour B and C also shoot. He wants to see some sort of return on his money so shoots away, guessing what his cull figure should be, as he will not speak to either neighbours and therefore has no clue as to what they shoot.
Neighbour B gets his land for free. He shoots a few as the landowner likes to see them but doesn't want too many. He makes a few quid as he sells them to the gamedealer. He doesn't tell anybody about his land for fear it will get taken off of him by someone with money.
Neighbour C hates them and shoots them himself on sight. He also takes them to the gamedealer.
I forgot Neighbour D. He's a bunnyhugger :rofl:

Neighbour A an C are shooting hell out of the deer population. Neighbour B kicks the bloke off his land as he thinks he's shot too many and the deer are reduced to a mess of nocturnal jumpy poacher fodder.
Neighbour D just sits in the corner and cries :rofl:

Ask our Danish friends what shooting is like over there. It'll scare the hell out of you.

And yes the above is happening. Thankfully not to me.



i think the deer will suffer for it , we have already seen a drop in quality of fallow bucks , all the big master bucks are gone , the problem being fallow roam over such large areas that everyone shoots "just one for the wall" and with more and more stalkers in the country the bucks arent getting to a mature age . Roe will be next , we see posts on here about a nice buck being seen and replys like "shoot him before your neghbours do" or "take him out , his genes are already in the pool" . Shooting any buck is like felling a tree , easy done but your along time waiting for the replacement to grow . With does , far too many are shot too early , with roe the kids need their mother right through winter to show them the way through the lean months . Next are the cash shooters , taking ever animal they can to sell to the dealer . Lets all just ease up on the bucks , do you really need another trophy or a medal ?



Absolutely 100% correct .. glad there`s some others that agree I`ve been banging on about this for years

Bob
 
Absolutely 100% correct .. glad there`s some others that agree I`ve been banging on about this for years

Bob[/QUOTE] I bet alot will agree until he steps out , and then its "well , its only one" . By the time most blokes have grown out of it the damage is done
 
I agree but also a problem up north & on one of my permissions & several in that area in Devon, recently someone I know lost one of their permissions to some Russians they had previously taken on there as clients, it is now their permission!
most bullx lurchers come from tuther side of the severn , and one of the latest tricks when challenged seems to be to reply "polski" and keep walking
The polski answer is common & has taken the stocks from many corse fisheries in latter years, & I see the same thing happening with deer.
 
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You can moan about dog men as much as you like but they will never take huge amounts of deer compared with us lot. And as much as I hate them at least your ones in Wales take them for food our gypos down here just dump them, it's the money on the coarse they're after.
 
I, like some others on here started shooting well over sixty years ago and have seen massive changes where shooting of all persuasions is concerned, precious few for the good.
These changes both in legislation and social have brought pressures to bear on pretty well all field sports that were unimaginable half a century ago. I believe this pressure will increase from all quarters in the future and without being a doom and gloom merchant fear for all fieldsports.
As far as immigration is concerned that is just a drop in the ocean, although there was a locally reported incident where some of our Polish friends were caught fishing in a very well known salmon/sea trout river and when challenged said we were just getting our supper! Hey Ho!
 
Interesting thread. I agree with lots of the above but would also add that in my experience some stalking that is taken on a rolling lease basis, like some roe in large forestry for example, is sometimes tied up by those who can pay the most but not necessarily stalk (i.e. visit) the most. This leads to a surplus of deer but the money keeps getting paid and not much gets done about the deer. In some instances, particularly (but just my experience) in the south, a glut of deer can get hit by poaching and coarsing but in others it just leads to a lot of deer around. So I appreciate it might not be common but in my experience, and only in some instances, the high cost / inaccessibility of the stalking has actually led to a lot more deer around in certain places. This doesn't make good management and is far from ideal but I think its relevant to the above. I suppose that in the future such places (as as happened further south) will get leased by professional stalkers who then take guests out and make their money back.
 
Am interested to know what folks think about the future of stalking. We are a small island with a rapidly increasing population. We are lucky to have several species of deer that seem to be increasing in number too. But stalking appears to be growing in popularity beyond the ability of the sport to embrace these new entrants. This will lead to prices going up, and to 'stalking' becoming merely sitting in high seats.

Where are we going?

Down the pan !!! In 10years there will be nothing, I am in my mid 50's & over the last 40 years I see the little Island we call home well. If they simply do not stop building on green belts , farm land & open spaces (to accommodate those who contribute nothing or very little) , & educate the sport how to manage the land, instead of bashing it all until virtually extinct . I have seen a vast decline in the quarry available in the last 10/15 years & with the new immigrant population poaching rivers ,land & ponds for cheep food. Say good bye to it all unless you get our 'act' together, soon :)

As the keepers breed the birds for shoots, deer for parks, boar for attractions etc , as so mainland quarry as rabbits, fox & other mammals may well have to be encouraged, very soon. If 50% are shot throughout the year, the harsh British winter take there toll on upto 50% remaining, that leaves 25% to breed & catch up on the land to allow us our sporting ventures . We have no neighbouring countries as in America , Europe ,Africa or Scandinavia for mammals to migrate . We need to protect more green belts & respect what we have . As a great hunter once said - "The wildlife of today is not ours to dispose of as we please. We have it in trust. We must account for it to those who come after." - KING GEORGE VI ;)
 
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Down the pan !!! In 10years there will be nothing


What a load of non-sense, do you all seriously believe that immigrant workers from inside and outside the EU contribute in any significant part to a decline in deer numbers?


Sure certain areas of the country have been raped of deer but in the large part numbers are healthy, heavy culling etc is isolated and will always lead to a vacuum anyway. Sure pooching seems rife just now but not to the extent that salmon poach used to be. And anyway, most poachers up my way are local... And always have been.


During the last bad winter around 300 deer were found dead along the west coast train line in Scotland, due to just the weather? Or over crowding forcing deer to attempt to shelter in areas that are not adequate? This is a question not just a statement.


Our understanding of deer numbers and "management" has dramatically increased since the introduction of the seasons as we know it. I do not accept that joe blogs who "manages" deer as a weekend hobby has a true understanding of the big picture across the country, I also do not accept that the opinion of a estate stalker of many years that "I've never seen the hills so empty", is sound basis to form facts regarding the state of the nations deer population. We have professionals consulting multiple organisations, large land owners and management groups who make decisions regarding the health and welfare of not just the deer themselves but there effects upon the given land they occupy.

deer have formed for hundreds if not certainly thousands of years a staple part of our diet yet despite this they are still here!


In ten years time: German bread hounds will be superior to anything else, bow hunting will still be illegal, the.243 won't be enough gun and deer numbers will be plummeting...


Ali
 
Irrespective of nationality or immigration, population growth is the single most important factor in just about every social, economic and environmental problem you can think of in my opinion.... and it is conspicuously the one which no government wants to touch!

Deer are a resource and like all resources in the context of an ever growing population, there will come a time when demand outstrips supply.
 
A very PC away of putting it +1
Irrespective of nationality or immigration, population growth is the single most important factor in just about every social, economic and environmental problem you can think of in my opinion.... and it is conspicuously the one which no government wants to touch!

Deer are a resource and like all resources in the context of an ever growing population, there will come a time when demand outstrips supply.
 
Having been shooting just over 40 years I have seen lots of changes in the countryside as well in our own Country.
The saying “Take care of your own problems first” has gone right out the window.
However we cant change what we have, so as ever taking it on the chin will be the norm..
There will all ways be pockets of deer tucked away but how many only time will tell, Local to me a farmer shot several of the best Reds claiming they were “ doing damage” only to line his pocket more like…so if people like that who you could be sharing a laugh with on a shoot day can stoop that low what chance have the deer got.
When I first had dogs they used to run around the garden, know my cocker pup is under lock and key!
There is no answer to it, I just keep myself busy with my shooting and look after my family and close friends with what time we have in this green and pleasant land….


Tim.243
 
If dogs run loose where live stock abound , I always thought you were able to put it down.
A man won't run fast enough to catch his deer, problem solved.
 
The government send millions upon millions on deer control the money would make your head spin we have far to many deer in just about every area in scotland and england has far to many deer in many areas. They need controlled and if the government is willing to spend 10,s of millions then there must be a real problem that needs sorted.
Future more legislation more competency tests to appease local authority,s and more opportunity,s
 
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