This is Free New Zealand, Public Land.

yorky07

Well-Known Member



This is a side of New Zealand people are not told about. New Zealand's clean Green Image. 1080 poison is dropped all over public land in the attempt by AHB and Doc to irradicate the possum.
Unfortunately it kills everything that breaths. This poison is so Toxic it Kills Everything from the possum/Deer that eats it to the worms, and insects that feed on the carcass, to the birds etc
that feed on them. New Zealand is the only Country that uses 1080, so much so that it Owns the company.
 
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I had a member off here out stalking with me, a native New Zealander. He told me all about this. I was stunned to hear this actually goes on.
 
I have always respected the New Zealanders for their no nonsense approach to pest and predator control since working for the DoC while I was there and can fully appreciate the need for a whole spectrum of control measures. They have their common wildlife such as the tui, bell bird, fan birds etc etc but the wildlife like the kiwi and takahe to name a few just do not occur naturally any more without a lot of help and left to fight it out would soon be wiped out.

One of the places I worked was a mainland island reserve and a poison carrot drop was used to clear a woodland of pests, including pigs, goats and deer, none of which are native, so that the line of traps and first line of defence could then be extended beyond that woodland therefore increasing the extent of the mainland island. A poison carrot drop as a tool to clear the woodland prior to a concerted effort to keep it clear. If they are to win their battle against non natives it seems this is the most effective tool and is very effective. Sad for the individuals that do die as a result of poisoning, no-one disagrees with that but a management tool.

The antis out there while I was there numerous times put 1080 in many towns water supply and also released mustelids on one of the islands down south to make a point (not sure what point) on an island where kiwis thrived.

I guess it depends what your values are, native species or non native ones. The difference with their non natives is that left to their own devices a lot of the the natives would be wiped out. The anti culling anything are very similar to those in this country that released mink in the UK, single minded; the other lot that made a lot of noise are those with a hunting interest who wanted more not less deer!
 
I have always respected the New Zealanders for their no nonsense approach to pest and predator control since working for the DoC while I was there and can fully appreciate the need for a whole spectrum of control measures. They have their common wildlife such as the tui, bell bird, fan birds etc etc but the wildlife like the kiwi and takahe to name a few just do not occur naturally any more without a lot of help and left to fight it out would soon be wiped out.

One of the places I worked was a mainland island reserve and a poison carrot drop was used to clear a woodland of pests, including pigs, goats and deer, none of which are native, so that the line of traps and first line of defence could then be extended beyond that woodland therefore increasing the extent of the mainland island. A poison carrot drop as a tool to clear the woodland prior to a concerted effort to keep it clear. If they are to win their battle against non natives it seems this is the most effective tool and is very effective. Sad for the individuals that do die as a result of poisoning, no-one disagrees with that but a management tool.

The antis out there while I was there numerous times put 1080 in many towns water supply and also released mustelids on one of the islands down south to make a point (not sure what point) on an island where kiwis thrived.

I guess it depends what your values are, native species or non native ones. The difference with their non natives is that left to their own devices a lot of the the natives would be wiped out. The anti culling anything are very similar to those in this country that released mink in the UK, single minded; the other lot that made a lot of noise are those with a hunting interest who wanted more not less deer!
Very well put mate. As allways there are 2 sides to an argument, I was out there last year and it seems the Kiwi is in big trouble. On one reserve a local dog killed 200 in just 2 nights. Every were we went in the bush there was signs totally banning any dogs.
Tusker
 
Well put! Now take this into consideration. last year about 55k Hectares of bush in the Te Urewara forest park were 1080’d effectively wiping out every Kiwi and other native bird in the area. New Zealand would need to be overrun with pests to wipe out that many natives in one go. Although both Doc and co will tell all that this is not happening. I hunt Te ureweras and it was like a morgue 2 weeks after the drop.
There are other methods of pest control other than the most toxic substance known to man thrown everywhere to kill indiscriminatley.
At present the UK is overrun with Non Native Spieces of Deer. I wonder just how well you would protect this method if the UK Gov’t decided to drop it everywhere to wipe out the UK,s excess.
 
On one reserve a local dog killed 200 in just 2 nights.

Where did this occur??? there is NO record of a Dog killing 200 Kiwis in 2 days. More Doc Hype I think.
 
The Scandinavians used a similar method on diseased rivers with good effect, and stricknine was used for many years in this country, many complaining when it stopped but it was also indiscriminate. I'm not saying its right or wrong in NZ I don't know enough about it but sometimes there are nessasary evils in the bigger picture or longer term, isn't that our reason for deer management when attacked by anti propaganda, if some control isn't used everything suffers anyway in the long term, the only debate is the methods used ind that has to be down to those there in the know not us on the other side of the world.
 
On one reserve a local dog killed 200 in just 2 nights.

Where did this occur??? there is NO record of a Dog killing 200 Kiwis in 2 days. More Doc Hype I think.

Just outside Pahia Bay of Islands, it was written on official reserve signpost but I do not know when this occurred
Tusker
 
A dog killed 200 kiwi.....Hahahah. RUBBISH. As to the antis putting 1080 in town water supplies, I would take that with a very large (DOC flavoured) pinch of salt too.
It is a regular occurance to find baited cereal pellets in waterways, usually due to wind drift during ariel applications. The science is out there that supposedly proves that 1080 breaks down in water to harmless levels very fast, and therefore does not pose a risk to humans. A fair number of dogs die each year due to eating either baits or more often, possum carcasses that have residual 1080 in them. The dog owners get blamed for not reading the signs that DOC put up.
NZ is not the only country that uses the stuff, but we do have a lions share of it. The unfortunate thing is that the use of this indiscriminate poison is now so entrenched, that it is going to take many years to change things.
 
At present the UK is overrun with Non Native Spieces of Deer.

It isn't so much whether the species are non-native or not, it is a matter of whether their presence is detrimental to the survival of other vulnerable species or not, e.g. culling hedgehogs in the Hebrides to protect ground nesting wading birds; culling grey squirrels to protect the remaining red squirrel populations, etc. I'm not aware that any of the non-native deer species pose a direct threat to the survival of another species (except perhaps bluebells in specific local habitats).
 
Hahaha! So all the native Flora these deer are browsing on, and potentially wiping out is of no concequence?
 
U could also argue about the sika/red hybridastion debate but we're about 30+ years to late for that.

The major difference between NZ and UK is the generally speaking most parts of the uk are fairly well accessable, even many parts of upland scotland are really not that inaccessable or atleast not on the scale of NZ. Unless u have been there it is hard to even describe the scle of some of the forests/DOC lands over there. I flew into Fiorland last Nov in a heli for whitebaiting, i have never seen anything like it for untouched wilderness, if that heli came down we were f***ed

Also pretty much 95%+ of the uk is man made and artifical habitat so very little truley natural untouched wild places left, unlike NZ where i imagine vast areas are completely untouched
The other major fact here is it would simply not be allowed by the bunny hugging majority, no matter how much damage they caused. If u don't know the uk is a special case where all animals live in harmony and nothing eats each other :doh::cuckoo:

Must admit always quite admired the NZ and OZ attuide to killing/wiping out non natives and wish the government here was a bit more like them, althou i would draw the line at airborne poison drops

Got a few mates who are hunters in NZ and who are obvouily dead aggainst 1080, but i can also see the conservationist point of view too, (well about the need for control, not so much the airborne poison drops) there simply would be no way to possibly control possums without it.
Was it u that put a similar clip of a horse that was dying of 1080 dropped in its paddock (posted on here a while ago) found it very hard to watch, not nice.

When i was down fiordland they were using Pottasium Cynide? i think, is that the same chemical judging by the signs it was put out by hand in bait station althou this was on a footpath (off sorts)

Wot other options is there for controlling possums? And do they do as much damage as made out? Finally is it actually working are they keeping possums in check?
 
Yeah! the problem most Kiwis cannot stomach aerial 1080 drops were supposed to be only for parts of the National Forest parks that are not possible or very hard to get into by foot.
For some reason that only Doc and the people who organise the drops this is no longer the case. The drop could be 2k from a highway with logging roads running through it, it makes no difference!
they still go for the aerial option??? not sure but looks like the hell operators make a **** load out of unnecessary drops. Where it is easy to put poison lines in.
If they put poison lines in everywhere instead of dropping tons of 1080 all over you would not have so much uproar about the use of 1080. Its only because Doc and AHB do not give a **** about
what people think.
Tunnel vison is the only phrase that covers it ?
 
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Does it work just as well out of the hoppers? althou obviously far more specific.

I got a lift last year off 2 fairly good looking DOC stoat trappers,(wish keepers looked like that over here;)) had there trap lines all over the routeburn valley.

Dunno how effective they are? Never seen traps set like that before, any keeper i know would kick my a**e if i set a trap like that. I noticed a few near the track as sun was reflecting of the treadle plate, u'd have thought they had polished it it was so bright
 
I may be wrong here old keeper, i didn't know they used 1080 in OZ. But the chemical u may be thinking of was used down in the Flinders ranges in SA they made some poison that actually only kills non indigineous species, there they were targeting fox, cat and dog as well as probably mustlieds.
Think chemical begins with an R (long time ago and head fairly pickled in those days ;)) and basically is a chemical that exists in most native Ozzie plants as a fire retardant so plant eaters eat it, they get ate so have a natural immuntiy to it, whereas non natives don't, or atleast that's wot it said on the signs.

From the tiny bit i do know about 1080 it seems to kill most things native or not, someone posted some clips a while ago of last hours of a horse and cattle due to 1080, i really struggled to watch it not nice
 
The only answer to any question concerning the effectiveness of 1080. It kills everything that touches it. If it killed a Possum it would also kill the insects,and worms that fed on the carcass.
then it would kill the birds etc that also fed off the carcass, it would also kill the animals and birds that fed off the insects and worms. For destroying the ecology 1080 is jack the ripper. Everything that breaths oxygen dies.

on average there would be 1 or 2 Possums per hectare. Aerial 1080 drops put enough poison to kill approx. 1000 possums per hectare.????????????????


As for the poisoned cows and horses, it is on the Poisoning Paradise video, the second one put on this thread.
 
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Yes they do use 1080 in Australia, but they use different methods IE burying it to for the foxes to dig up.
As to the comment about it only killing non indigenous species....I am actually gobsmacked that anyone would believe that of one the planets most toxic pesticides which has been banned by 99% of forward thinking countries because it is so leathel.
 
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