Does press make affect accuracy?

Danny Treacy

Well-Known Member
Hi all,

This year I plan to start reloading for my .223. I am gradually building up my kit, most of it 2nd hand. I bought a Lee Challenger press but I recently read that the press and dies are the part of the kit where money should not be skimped. I know that Lee stuff is ok but the cheapest of all the loading manufacturers.

As I would like to really get the most accuracy out of my rig should I look for a better press or is the one I have just as capable? Or is it a case of trying my press and get a different one if not happy?

I will only be loading .223 and only for one rifle.

Thanks.

Danny.
 
Ive use a lee press and rcbs dies (as they were given to me) and get a .5" group with my 308. I had a 25-06 up till april and again I had .5" groups but with Lee dies both at 100yds. So myself personally I dint think it matters a great deal, untill perhaps you shoot benchrest.

Nutty
 
I've used one or two presses, the RCBS Rockchucker, the Aussie Simplex (a Lyman Orange Crusher copy), Lyman 310 Tool, Lyman Tru-Line, and even straight line dies of the Wilson make. Using an arbor press.

The single most PRESS RELATED cause of potential inaccuracy is end float on the ram. That is it can waggle and wiggle left to right, side to side, back to front. Now it won't ever be absolutely rigid as it wouldn't work if it were such a tight fit. So that is where Wilson straight line dies are meant to be better, as the case is pushed totally into the die an so zero end float.

But my experience is is that for the average hunting rifle it makes no difference using Wilson dies. Indeed they may make less accurate rounds that those that have been neck sized to a particular rifle on a standard press.

So the bottom line is if the ram on your press wobbles like the clapper on a bell it WILL make a potential difference but if it has normal and expected side to side end float it won't. Lee, Lyman, RCBS they all wear in time some more quickly than others and depending on if just used for reloading or for swaging cases or heavy duty case forming.

But in the normal way of things if there is some end float that is normal. Won't be an issue. But if it wobbles like the clapper on a bell it is!
 
I agree with what ES said to a point. I have seen some second hand presses that were worn wobbly. No point in bothering.

That's about where I draw the line in the sand though. One of the best presses available is the Forster CoAxial in which there is no set position for the die. It kind of loosely floats in the frame. In this manner, the die and the cartridge are self aligning. (If you think about it, the Wilson/arbor press combo does the same thing in the end) This is accomplished on standard presses by the minute clearances in the shell holder. The shell holder itself is basically just held in the ram by a clip/detente which will allow some side to side play. A certain amount of play is necessary/desirable to have the cases align in the die.

But, again, a new quality press won't be a problem. I have RCBS, Lee, Lyman and Forster. I use them all.~Muir
 
I'm still using the same press I bought 35 years ago , it's made thousands of rounds .Care in assembling the ammunition and correct preparation makes a lot more difference than the make of press.If you spend a lot on a mega press you can expect it to last longer , my RCBS jr press was / is a mid-range press and is still showing no signs of wear -- it'll still be good when I'm dead and gone and the next owner will be making good ammo with it .I also have a Lee press , I use it to reload at the range , I take prepped and primed cases and work up loads in situ . The rounds made thus have to be accurate , I think it was £35 !!!.

:old:
 
I started out 40 years or so ago with a Lee Challenger that is still in use for case trimming, universal decapping and ram priming of some of the exotic BP cartridges I reload.

It was when I started re-forming brass in the press that I realised I needed something a little beefier, so got myself a Lyman Crusher.

The Challenger press loaded my rounds using Lee, RCBS and Redding dies which are still in use in the Lyman. I also use NDFS dies in the Lyman for .577 Snider and .577/450 Martini-Henry.

The Lee kit provided 1/2" MOA loads, as does the Lyman (except in the BP stuff!).
 
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This question is similar to "which spanner is best for tightening nuts ?"
As has been said, so long as the press is not slack then they are all as much of a muchness.
I have used, and seen being used, several different makes of press over quite a long period and not seen any 'slack' ones being used, either they don't become slack very often or they get changed as soon as they do.
 
'Floating' here is purely a euphemism for 'manufactured imprecision', if you think about the self aligning 'property' it is something the maker hopes that you will believe enough to part with the hard earned.
One thing that most do not understand is that it takes more care and time to align a ram bearing journal to a screwed in die than to just cut a slot and market that as 'self aligning'.
The single most PRESS RELATED cause of potential inaccuracy is end float on the ram. That is it can waggle and wiggle left to right, side to side, back to front
- in the co-ax case the the ram clearance is added to the much vaunted x,y,z die wobble now! - note you are paying for that wobble!

In a Wilson set up with an arbour press there is little hope in alignment - don't believe me?- take a look at Richard Franklins (and some others closer to home) videos to see how it all slips together cockeyed,
same as the 'co-ax' nice marketing job - just have a real think about how it supposedly works they are selling you a 'tool' with inherent wobble (see videos) as noted earlier.
Yes I'm speaking from experience - oh and I have real arbour presses not the cheapo aluminium toys that will 'spring' without effort and are sold at premium prices.

A good 'O' frame press that is kept clean and lubricated will do a Zanussi!*










*goes on and on and on and on and on.......
 
'Floating' here is purely a euphemism for 'manufactured imprecision', if you think about the self aligning 'property' it is something the maker hopes that you will believe enough to part with the hard earned.
One thing that most do not understand is that it takes more care and time to align a ram bearing journal to a screwed in die than to just cut a slot and market that as 'self aligning'.

- in the co-ax case the the ram clearance is added to the much vaunted x,y,z die wobble now! - note you are paying for that wobble!

In a Wilson set up with an arbour press there is little hope in alignment - don't believe me?- take a look at Richard Franklins (and some others closer to home) videos to see how it all slips together cockeyed,
same as the 'co-ax' nice marketing job - just have a real think about how it supposedly works they are selling you a 'tool' with inherent wobble (see videos) as noted earlier.
Yes I'm speaking from experience - oh and I have real arbour presses not the cheapo aluminium toys that will 'spring' without effort and are sold at premium prices.

A good 'O' frame press that is kept clean and lubricated will do a Zanussi!*










*goes on and on and on and on and on.......

You don't own one, do you?~Muir
 
If you keep grit out of the ram , grit from fired primers is abrasive , any press should last years .I put a lare o ring on the ram on mine which cuts down the amount of grit that gets in there ,plus clean and lubricate oftem especially with alloy presses.
 
Nope but did have a careful look with some touchy feely and understood the problem also did not care much for the lightweight toggle arms...
I did not buy it in the end!

Well. Who'd a seen that coming?? Are you sure you're just not one of those guys who think they can build everything better than it's already built?? :D How light were those toggles?? Forster does a demonstration whereby they FL resize 200 consecutive rifle cases (once fired 300 WM?) with no lube. Never sticking a case and never tearing a rim. That would seem to indicate adequate strength to me. But I own a coax so I'm probably a little prejudiced.~Muir
 
A good friend of mine uses two RCBS rockchucker presses. He is ott with his reloading and regularly checks for concentricity with his reloaded rounds. He claims that the one press regularly gives run-out some two thou greater when loads are loaded on the one press compared to rounds loaded using the same dies on the other press. As a result he reloads his .17 fireball and .223 on the one press and saves the "less accurate" press for larger calibres that he shoots at closer range such as when stalking.
 
Case forming aside, the wilson method of seating bullets produces less runout than conventional dies. The case is held firm and the bullet held perfectly true while it is pushed in by a guided plunger. Conventional died allow the case and bullet to wobble until it comes to the end of its travel.. The Wilson method of seating is superior.. Thats a fact.
 
A good friend of mine uses two RCBS rockchucker presses. He is ott with his reloading and regularly checks for concentricity with his reloaded rounds. He claims that the one press regularly gives run-out some two thou greater when loads are loaded on the one press compared to rounds loaded using the same dies on the other press. As a result he reloads his .17 fireball and .223 on the one press and saves the "less accurate" press for larger calibres that he shoots at closer range such as when stalking.

This press is a killer!

IMG_3684_zps72f875f4.jpg


Cheers

K
 
Case forming aside, the wilson method of seating bullets produces less runout than conventional dies. The case is held firm and the bullet held perfectly true while it is pushed in by a guided plunger. Conventional died allow the case and bullet to wobble until it comes to the end of its travel.. The Wilson method of seating is superior.. Thats a fact.

Which speaks of the die, not the press.
But really, there is way too much more to reloading, and to screw up during reloading, to fuss about presses.~Muir
 
Well. Who'd a seen that coming?? Are you sure you're just not one of those guys who think they can build everything better than it's already built?? :D How light were those toggles?? Forster does a demonstration whereby they FL resize 200 consecutive rifle cases (once fired 300 WM?) with no lube. Never sticking a case and never tearing a rim. That would seem to indicate adequate strength to me. But I own a coax so I'm probably a little prejudiced.~Muir

So the die had been modified to work without lube then? Or is there something extra magical that allows you to use dies without lube in this press? Or carbide dies? More BS.
I spend a lot of time putting stuff right...
I did not like the construction and could see through the 'marketing'.

Somone mentioned the 'guide' on a wilson die, watch the vids mentioned to see the 'slop' there which flies in the face of the claims made.
 
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