long range scope choice

from what distance onwards does one talk about long range?
To be accepted as a stalker what is the furthest one is allowed to shoot? Off-hand? yes/no?
Bipod OK or too tactical? Neck shooting...yes/no?
Where do we start and where do we stop telling other people what they should do and what not.
edi
 
You have every right to stand by your statement, but you and your rude friend manorman have no right to tell other forum members what opinions and comments they should have or make on this forum.
And I stand by that.

Not being an advocate of using deer as long range "targets", but believing in stalking deer, in 2010 I was prompted to write this,

"Now if folks want to shoot deer at 1000yds + with .338 Lapua Mags or .50 cal, use anemometers, range finders, have spotters and refer to their bullet drop charts while shooting deer, fine, fair play. But don't call it stalking, please don't, because it isn't."

I stand by the statement.

Simon.
 
I use Sightron SIII, 6-24x50 on my 22BR and 8-32x56 on my 257 Improved both target dots, they are excellent scopes and cover all my long range needs.

Ian.
 
Leupold 6.5-20's were the standard longer range / precision shooting scopes for many years and are still very capable. Premier reticules offered a service which added a 2x conversation making a 13-40. The beauty of leupolds was always the fine reticule and the precision target turret. The downside was the reticules were too fine to use in half light, of course illuminated reticules now solve this problem.
 
You have every right to stand by your statement, but you and your rude friend manorman have no right to tell other forum members what opinions and comments they should have or make on this forum.
And I stand by that.
spot on
 
Very true, I for one would like to know what the people who deplore "long range" shooting as not stalking to define what is stalking and what equipment and distance they shoot at. I imagine they only use black powder muskets with no scope and shoot from no more than 30 metres away.

Just because you don't like something doesn't mean it's wrong for everyone else out there.

from what distance onwards does one talk about long range?
To be accepted as a stalker what is the furthest one is allowed to shoot? Off-hand? yes/no?
Bipod OK or too tactical? Neck shooting...yes/no?
Where do we start and where do we stop telling other people what they should do and what not.
edi
 
The scope is destined for a 300 win mag that I intend to use for long range target and the larger deer species.

The post that started all this bickering clearly says "long range target" not "long range deer".

I fail to see what all the fuss is about!

Put your handbags away and read the posts properly - you sound like a bunch of old women.... :D
 
Thanks to everyone who has posted. Especially manorman for keeping it interesting by causing trouble.
Top marks!
The reason I use this forum is because as a whole, its users will either own, use or have informed opinions about anything deer stalking related. Its probably the same reason we all use it.
Just to clarify, the scope im after will get used for target, as an earlier post wisely said, we all need to hone our skills, and very occasionally long range target.
More often though on the larger deer species at sensible ranges.
I was merely asking for a bit of advice as to available kit out there that would do for both.
Sorry to cause such debate.:D
 
where abouts in yorkshire are you, if you want a go with my 300 with the sightron you are welcome to see what you think, atb wayne
 
Firstly I have my views on long range shooting and have the equipment.
I also make my living from stalking deer and all are shot by clients below 150ms. I might push myself to 220m.
That said I shoot foxes at very great distance-600m in daylight if there is NO chance of getting them nearer.
A hit on them finishes them easily and there is no meat issue or even a need to pick them.
My scope of choice and I have x2 are Zeiss 6-24x56 FL's with ASV+ turrets.
Fantastic clarity even at high mag and under filtered lights if night shooting.
This site has many stalkers but they also have an interest in target, foxing, varmint and game shooting.
We should be ALL allowed a say and to ask/give advice if we wish.
As it happens I'm taking Sue out now to have a go at the fox gong if we can get the distance I want we'll go to 600m.
Then I'm foxing tonight and guiding all day tomorrow. We will not be shooting deer beyond 150m I assure you all.
 
You have every right to stand by your statement, but you and your rude friend manorman have no right to tell other forum members what opinions and comments they should have or make on this forum.
And I stand by that.

Branko,

Thank you for your kindness in telling me what I can and cannot do, something I believed you were upset by in Monarman's post.

Please do not tell me who my friends are, I do not know Monarman at all. I do however have some sympathy with anyone who does not like deer being used as targets and not as respected quarry. My stalking mentor told me many years ago that if I was unsure of the distance to a deer, and so was unsure of what bullet drop I may have, to, "Stalk closer!"

I have some very interesting books written by Nathan Foster; Long Range Hunting Rifles & Long Range Hunting Cartridges. Both brilliant books full of wonderful information. Perhaps this site ought to be renamed The Long Range Hunting Directory.

I may be a very old fashioned and tedious sort of muggins, being a bear of very little brain, but I have always thought the stalk was as much a part of the outing as the shot.

There is a member of this site called Ecoman who is not an active member anymore, an ex-Head Stalker on a prestigious estate and former columnist in the much reverred Stalking Magazine. Now he is a good friend of mine, and the long range "diallers in", people quite happy to use deer as targets to practise on, have sickened us both to the extent that we rarely use this site any more. Both of us have used neck shots when it was appropriate, used bi-pods and even range finders. But both of us think of deer as creatures worthy of our best efforts in giving them a clean and quick exit from this world, which is far easier to do at 300yds (even easier at 200yds) than at 800yds.

Back to optics for long range, I will give you Nathan Foster's veiws from his books, as he does shoot deer, pigs and feral cattle at very long ranges. He has banned clients from bringing Swarovski and Zeiss brand scopes on tutorial hunts.

According to him you need scopes with 1/8 or 1/4 MOA adjustments. You want as long an eye relief as possible if using big calibres. He rates Sightron, Nightforce, Nikon Tactical, March and Trijicon. He says all these brands are very good regarding eye relief, calibration and have excellent optical clarity.

He does not seem to have used S&B, Kahles or Leica scopes.

He does suggest using at least a 30mm scope body and also using a canted picatinny type rail which will give you more adjustment for your long range shooting.

Regards, Simon
 
from what distance onwards does one talk about long range?
To be accepted as a stalker what is the furthest one is allowed to shoot? Off-hand? yes/no?
Bipod OK or too tactical? Neck shooting...yes/no?
Where do we start and where do we stop telling other people what they should do and what not.
edi

you and I would get on for sure.
 
I do however have some sympathy with anyone who does not like deer being used as targets and not as respected quarry. My stalking mentor told me many years ago that if I was unsure of the distance to a deer, and so was unsure of what bullet drop I may have, to, "Stalk closer!"


Regards, Simon

What's so special about deer that sets them above affording the same respect for ANY quarry?
 
you and I would get on for sure.

:D
...



Simon,
I understand where you are coming from. That is why I asked just to define what is long range.
I know that for some very traditional stalkers/hunters especially on the continent anything over 100m is regarded as far. In the US you wouldn't post a 500m shot on a long range forum as you'd be laughed at and your 800m shots are quite common.
The deer stalker target tests that I witnessed showed about 50% fail rate at the first go. This would certainly confirm that 100m seems quite or difficult or some plainly lack practice/knowledge.
On the other side if a hunter can prove over and over again that he can hit a 4" target at 300m with say 90% reliability why should he not take a deer at that distance. Of course to achieve this one would need good equipment (that the 100m shooter might not have) and one would need to learn the theory of the longer range shots as well as plenty practice.
Within Europe I believe UK / Irl have quite a high percentage of excellent "longer" range hunters however I also believe we lack at the very short ranges as in running game. In other European countries this is sometimes the only way to take out animals. Especially in Germany many hunters practice running game shooting on special indoor ranges.

What I trying to say is that it does not really matter if you take an animal at 10yds or at 400yds one has to prove in training that one can reliably take that shot. I still have more difficulties with offhand/running game shooting than longer range shots prone. Off-hand shooting is necessary in some of our very rough plantations where deer need to be removed.
edi
 
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What's so special about deer that sets them above affording the same respect for ANY quarry?

DaveK,

Becuase the meat is to enter the food chain is the basic answer to your question and therefore shot placement is at a premium.

As John from Yorkshire Roe Staking says, foxes can be shot at very long distances because they do not enter the human food chain and some folks do not even bother to pick up the carcasses, all you need is a dead fox!

Very few people that I have met are prepared to put in the time and resources to have a proper long range stalking outfit and to practise enough with it to become really good with it at extreme ranges and in different weather conditions. In fact all but two (good to very good) long distance shots that I know are ex-military, and they had a lot of training by HMG.

Even finding the correct bullet for long range work in your rifle takes some working out. A lot of which can be by-passed by reading Nathan Foster's work.

I have no connection to Nathan Foster, other than being a customer, but anyone interested in long range hunting could do much worse than to read his books.

Simon

Edit; Edi, nothing I cannot disagree with in your post, but how many folks have shot at 300yds to see what their bullet drop is? Not many if the folks I know are anything like a fair sample. My three 6.5x55 rifles have differed, with similar loads, from 8.5" to 10.7" @ 300yds. I too was horrified by the level of shooting shown in the DSC1 course I attended, and as you so rightly point out that is only done at 100yds (In England & Wales).
 
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Dear Simon
my apologies for the outburst that implied friendship with people you quite clearly have very little in common with. I totally agree with your mentors point, if unsure of range get as close as possible to ensure humane despatch. Interestingly I do have nathans latest books on long range hunting cartridge bullet selection and have spoken to him via skype and email on a number of occasions. Have watched some of the shooting on his website quite impressive. As far as scopes are concerned I think its nightforce with quarter MOA also range finder is in yards., although a friend of mine suggested S B pm11 in p4L reticle, but thats a bit out of my budget.





Branko,

Thank you for your kindness in telling me what I can and cannot do, something I believed you were upset by in Monarman's post.

Please do not tell me who my friends are, I do not know Monarman at all. I do however have some sympathy with anyone who does not like deer being used as targets and not as respected quarry. My stalking mentor told me many years ago that if I was unsure of the distance to a deer, and so was unsure of what bullet drop I may have, to, "Stalk closer!"

I have some very interesting books written by Nathan Foster; Long Range Hunting Rifles & Long Range Hunting Cartridges. Both brilliant books full of wonderful information. Perhaps this site ought to be renamed The Long Range Hunting Directory.

I may be a very old fashioned and tedious sort of muggins, being a bear of very little brain, but I have always thought the stalk was as much a part of the outing as the shot.

There is a member of this site called Ecoman who is not an active member anymore, an ex-Head Stalker on a prestigious estate and former columnist in the much reverred Stalking Magazine. Now he is a good friend of mine, and the long range "diallers in", people quite happy to use deer as targets to practise on, have sickened us both to the extent that we rarely use this site any more. Both of us have used neck shots when it was appropriate, used bi-pods and even range finders. But both of us think of deer as creatures worthy of our best efforts in giving them a clean and quick exit from this world, which is far easier to do at 300yds (even easier at 200yds) than at 800yds.

Back to optics for long range, I will give you Nathan Foster's veiws from his books, as he does shoot deer, pigs and feral cattle at very long ranges. He has banned clients from bringing Swarovski and Zeiss brand scopes on tutorial hunts.

According to him you need scopes with 1/8 or 1/4 MOA adjustments. You want as long an eye relief as possible if using big calibres. He rates Sightron, Nightforce, Nikon Tactical, March and Trijicon. He says all these brands are very good regarding eye relief, calibration and have excellent optical clarity.

He does not seem to have used S&B, Kahles or Leica scopes.

He does suggest using at least a 30mm scope body and also using a canted picatinny type rail which will give you more adjustment for your long range shooting.

Regards, Simon
 
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