what does the BDS do for me

Mulac

Well-Known Member
There have been a few discussions in the past about what individuals expect to get from membership of the BDS. Mark Nicholson (Chairman) answered this question very succinctly in the latest edition of the Deer Journal....

quote - I have oft heard it asked "why should I be a member of the BDS?" Or "What's in it for me". As a charity the correct answer is nothing - we are about deer not people.

He then went on about the need to have a message that people understand as to why they should be a member.

I have been a member of the society for a good number of years now and was a branch secretary for 8 years. I concur with his view and would also like to stress that Branches should be looked on as self interest groups and should be about how individual members can help each other towards a common goal of the greater good for deer. It should not be about getting something back for the money spent on membership.....that money is to allow the Society go about it's business of doing more for deer now and in the future.

Mulac
 
I agree, but in the case of the Wessex branch its my opinion Dorothy does a great job organising visits and events.

Due to my job i am not regularly able to attend but the ones i have with the family have been well organised and interesting.

Anybody moaning about their Branch might do well and try contributing something themselves.
 
There have been a few discussions in the past about what individuals expect to get from membership of the BDS. Mark Nicholson (Chairman) answered this question very succinctly in the latest edition of the Deer Journal....

quote - I have oft heard it asked "why should I be a member of the BDS?" Or "What's in it for me". As a charity the correct answer is nothing - we are about deer not people.

He then went on about the need to have a message that people understand as to why they should be a member.

I have been a member of the society for a good number of years now and was a branch secretary for 8 years. I concur with his view and would also like to stress that Branches should be looked on as self interest groups and should be about how individual members can help each other towards a common goal of the greater good for deer. It should not be about getting something back for the money spent on membership.....that money is to allow the Society go about it's business of doing more for deer now and in the future.

Mulac

With the BDS you get nothing for nothing simple, at branch level it is what each individual branch members will do for each other.

At national level they only,want the money ,every thing else is an extra .

Charity I've yet to see a list of things in the deer world in the UK, as it is ,the British deer society where the charitable aspect is and has been used to further the deer in what ever way, every other charity publishes a list of where there cash is used .

Ive written to the BDS and the editor of the magazine, I'm not interested in deer in Patagonia,the north American Elk or Samba in India ,pie charts and graphs on stuff that is not appertaining to deer in the UK, where we have 6 species of deer thousands of stalkers, two areas of formidable training in the subject ,yet the magazine is full of crap. And adverts .
 
What have the BDS ever done for US????
Reminds me of a clip which might put their efforts over the years into a similar perspective?

So, although they may not have built too many aqueducts, the BDS has been, and continues to be extremely influential in how deer management is carried out in the UK. They were a major influence in the formation of the Deer Act which affects us all, as well as Game handling and hygiene regs.
They have also been very influential over the years in lobbying and raising general acceptance and public awareness of the need for deer management. Much of this has to be backed up by statistical evidence which they obtain by funding research projects such as the regular Deer Distribution surveys.
As a training centre and provider, they offer a full range of competitive and highly regarded training courses which have undoubtedly benefitted a huge amount of us. Some courses such as the ‘Deer Managers Course’ or ‘Humane Dispatch Course’ either have been, or remain unique to the BDS.
Let’s not forget the website either which is a free source of useful information.
Local branches can offer friendship and advice as well as Range/Training days.
Their insurance is an excellent policy as it allows you to sell carcasses to a Game Dealer (up to £5000 worth) whereas some other leading insurance providers policies would be invalidated if you were to earn any money!
So…… what else have the BDS ever done for us???

MS:)
 
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They were a major influence in the formation of the Deer Act

Ah. The legislation that prohibited, banned, the use of the 6.5x54MS and the 6.5x53R two calibres that were the classic and standard highland stalking calibres for nearly half a century.

The same body that in 1988 told Parliament that self-loading and pump action rifles were not necessary for stalking and so denied to those such as my late friend and wounded WWII veteran Clifford Owen his final years of stalking as his wound meant he could not work a bolt action.

It is time that stalker realised that the BDS is not their "friend"...

I read Willie Gunn's link. Salaries paid are listed as just shy of £ 250,000 per annum to the equivalent of EIGHT full time posts.

So let me see £ 250,000 divided by 8 = £ 30,000
 
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With the BDS you get nothing for nothing simple, at branch level it is what each individual branch members will do for each other.

At national level they only,want the money ,every thing else is an extra .

Charity I've yet to see a list of things in the deer world in the UK, as it is ,the British deer society where the charitable aspect is and has been used to further the deer in what ever way, every other charity publishes a list of where there cash is used .

Ive written to the BDS and the editor of the magazine, I'm not interested in deer in Patagonia,the north American Elk or Samba in India ,pie charts and graphs on stuff that is not appertaining to deer in the UK, where we have 6 species of deer thousands of stalkers, two areas of formidable training in the subject ,yet the magazine is full of crap. And adverts .

Bah! Humbug! :cuckoo:
 
I read Willie Gunn's link. Salaries paid are listed as just shy of £ 250,000 per annum to the equivalent of EIGHT full time posts.

So let me see £ 250,000 divided by 8 = £ 30,000

Meaning what, exactly? Someone posted exactly the same pathetic mathematical exercise on the last thread about joining the BDS in East Anglia. I don't quite know what you expect charity employees to be paid, but here's the response I posted last time:

Gross salaries for BDS in 2012 were £224,078 - that's an average of just over £28,000 based on 8 FTE's.

Based on the advice for graduates seeking careers in the charity sector BDS doesn't seem to be particularly out of line: http://www.prospects.ac.uk/charity_officer_salary.htm

By comparison, the GWCT had 103 employees in 2012 and a gross wage bill of £3,452,087 giving an average of £33,515

The RSPB had 2,151 employees in 2013 with an average gross wage of £44,061 (http://www.rspb.org.uk/Images/truste...cm9-354073.pdf)

Guide Dogs for the Blind had 1,118 FTE's in 2012 and a gross wage bill of £30.4m, giving an average of £27,191 (https://d3qkb2hv043xyy.cloudfront.ne...d_Accounts.pdf)

Or is your suggestion that charity employees (or is it just those involved with deer) should be working for free?

I have no connection with BDS other than being a member, and I am sure as an organisation it's not perfect, but making snide remarks about the salaries of their employees is pretty low. It comes from the same school as those who think that by going stalking we're doing farmers a favour (surely farmers should be paying stalkers??) and that every professional stalker is ripping off their clients by having the gall to charge to take them out.:rolleyes:

willie_gunn
 
Perhaps the question should be two-fold;


What do "I" do for the management, conservation of deer and what do "I" do to promote education, improvement of skills and training for stalkers in the UK.


People who knock the BDS should look within themselves casting a random stone and watching where the ripples touch...



Personally, i'm tired of these and similar knocking threads,,,,,
 
Yes Dominic I've looked through the annual statement of accounts and chairmanship report since 1971 but it has only ever listed totals .
Not who receives or what the cash is actually used for in the aspect of a charitable status .

Bob, I've always read the Annual Review (http://www.bds.org.uk/hres/Annual%20Review%202012.pdf) and the reports of their research contained therein and taken that as where the funding has gone, so to the likes of Richard Fautley. Personally I wouldn't expect a line-by-line ledger, but I get where you're coming from.

willie_gunn
 
Bah! Humbug! :cuckoo:
Really don't think so, my answer could have bee put to so many different associations they all live o the backs of there membership ,with the BDS it has a branch area level which works pretty well ,but that is down to the members and committee that make it work ,without that there would be no BDS ,but as the OP asked (what does the BDS do for me) they take money out of your pocket .
it is actually the branch that do the work for you ,that set up evening events, range days, and activity days .But your cash goes to HQ .
 
If it hadn't been for the decision made by a local branch of the BDS they were not going to attend the Deerstalking Fair last year. The reasons for this initial decision were suspect to say the least. Thankfully, the local branch saw beyond this 'mistake' and realised they absolutely should be present, if for no other reason than simply showing support and offering members a 'face' to interact with at the event.

The first ever dedicated Deerstalking Fair held in Scotland and one individuals personal opinion was what almost prevented their attendance???? Really.......
 
Really don't think so, my answer could have bee put to so many different associations they all live o the backs of there membership ,with the BDS it has a branch area level which works pretty well ,but that is down to the members and committee that make it work ,without that there would be no BDS ,but as the OP asked (what does the BDS do for me) they take money out of your pocket .
it is actually the branch that do the work for you ,that set up evening events, range days, and activity days .But your cash goes to HQ .

It seems to me WS that you are missing the point completely, as the OP was pointing out the BDS is about the deer not the members, and therefore of course they"live off the backs of their members" where else are they going to get money from for this work. I for one find the results of their research and the other research they publish which they do not fund absolutely fascinating whether it is archeological clues to our past relationship with deer or stuff about whitetail behaviour in America who else publishes this stuff except academic papers and nature etc. I don't mind paying my subscription even though I don't get involved with the local branch, I read the mag from cover to cover and am happy to help fund research etc.
So what does it do for me? It lets me be part of a much bigger thing that increases our understanding of deer and perhaps is to their benefit as well. That makes me feel quite good actually.
 
It seems to me WS that you are missing the point completely, as the OP was pointing out the BDS is about the deer not the members, and therefore of course they"live off the backs of their members" where else are they going to get money from for this work. I for one find the results of their research and the other research they publish which they do not fund absolutely fascinating whether it is archeological clues to our past relationship with deer or stuff about whitetail behaviour in America who else publishes this stuff except academic papers and nature etc. I don't mind paying my subscription even though I don't get involved with the local branch, I read the mag from cover to cover and am happy to help fund research etc.
So what does it do for me? It lets me be part of a much bigger thing that increases our understanding of deer and perhaps is to their benefit as well. That makes me feel quite good actually.

Remember without the members there is no BDS local level is where it works.

The deer have always been here and well I'll stick my neck out and say they always will be with or without the BDS .


It is not the sport of Kings, Nobles and or Gentry any longer the normal working man is into this in a far bigger way than our peers ever were, the BDS love the fact it has Royalty as a patron ,when was he/they last seen at a local meeting or an Agm .

For me local level branches is where the BDS really is the guys who are willing to talk to you, pass on information help each other out, Try and get any such information out of the plush HQ . First thing they will ask for is you membership details .


Im not a disgruntled member im quite happy at local level.
 
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The deer have always been here and well I'll stick my neck out and say they always will be with or without the BDS .


As many of you will be aware for some years now deer have been re-establishing themselves in the wild here, however the Forestry Commission wish to eradicate them, to quote Simon Hodgson, Chief Executive of Forest Enterprise England:-

"by keeping the Isle of Wight with its deer free status we and others can be assured of at least some areas with no deer impacts to compare and contrast with the biodiversity on the adjacent mainland"

I believe that the BDS has an essential role to play in assisting the public sector to take a more balanced, informed and reasoned attitude to deer management, both on the Isle of Wight and elsewhere.

atb Tim
 
I have no connection with BDS other than being a member, and I am sure as an organisation it's not perfect, but making snide remarks about the salaries of their employees is pretty low.

I merely, if you read my post again, made a statement. So that those who maybe did not view the source can realise what the money they contribute goes towards in terms of salaries.

No comment either way. Yet you view it as a "snide" remark?

Why?

Read the figures and perhaps you too will question the monies raised by members paying their subscriptions and monies paid out in staff salaries.

You quote salaries in other charities. What is more relevant is the proportion of monies paid by members' subscriptions to the monies paid in staff salaries.

As another says maybe it really is a question of what its members do for the BDS? And that seems to be to pay, in 2012, staff salaries and costs of £ 250,000 a year out of an income raised from those membership subscriptions of £ 270,000.


SO MEMBERSHIP SUBSCRIPTIONS TO BDS WERE £ 270,682 IN 2012.

EXPENDITURE NETT ON STAFF SALARIES WERE £ 224,078 IN 2012.

WITH EMPLOYER'S N.I. (£ 21,806) AND PENSION CONTRIBUTIONS (£ 7,594) - AGAIN FROM THE SOURCE OF THE CHARITY COMMISSION DOCUMENT LINK.

SO TOTAL STAFF COSTS AND EMOLUMENTS OF £ 253,478.


So as this is a stalking forum, and I presume that most here who ARE BDS members or thinking of joining the BDS ARE STALKERS.

So maybe they should ask for what, in terms of promoting accessibility to stalking and lawful possession of the weapons used therein, does the payment of those salaries contribute to the ability of its members to partake in stalking either now or in the future?

The bottom line is that stalking members are contributing towards the salaries of an organisation that, in the past, and recently has shown itself to be (as it indeed is and makes no pretence of otherwise) a deer welfare charity and NOT a charity for the promotion of stalking and stalkers.

Yet when past Governments have introduced changes in the law that have had a negative affect of stalking and stalkers the legitimacy that stalker members of the BDS give to the BDS has been used against them.

The BDS is a deer welfare charity. Yet stalkers by their very membership of it give a legitimacy to it (when speaking on firearms law matters) that it does not deserve. And then that legitimacy is used against the interests of stalkers....

And so that is the backbone to my statement. As a stalker who is a member of the BDS you are paying eight full time equivalent staff an average of 30K per annum and yet, as far as I see, is that money actually benefiting you current or future ability to enjoy stalking or own firearms with which to stalk.
 
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There have been a few discussions in the past about what individuals expect to get from membership of the BDS. Mark Nicholson (Chairman) answered this question very succinctly in the latest edition of the Deer Journal....

quote - I have oft heard it asked "why should I be a member of the BDS?" Or "What's in it for me". As a charity the correct answer is nothing - we are about deer not people.

He then went on about the need to have a message that people understand as to why they should be a member.

Mulac

Then why do they advertise this statement:

"Did you know that it only costs £55 to become a Full Member of the British Deer Society? You will receive a copy of our journal "Deer" four times a year and membership of a local branch which holds lectures, demonstrations and talks on deer..., as well as social activities and range days."


So it is not just about Deer - it is about lectures, demonstrations, talks on deer and social actvitites.
If the charity is only about deer then they should make that clear!

Either the chairman does not know what the club membership is being sold as, or the club membership is being sold on a lie!
Would be interesting to know wich one it is!



 
As a stalker who is a member of the BDS you are paying eight full time equivalent staff an average of 30K per annum and yet, as far as I see, is that money actually benefiting you current or future ability to enjoy stalking or own firearms with which to stalk.

Surely by now everyone has got the FACT that the BDS is a charity promoting the welfare of deer. If a stalker joins with the idea that the Society is going to, co-incidentally, help him/her enjoy their stalking and promote wider ownership of firearms, now and in the future, then I'm afraid that's one dim stalker. It would be like a pigeon shooter joining the RSPB and then moaning that the Society doesn't promote shotgun ownership and massive bags.
 
Surely by now everyone has got the FACT that the BDS is a charity promoting the welfare of deer. If a stalker joins with the idea that the Society is going to, co-incidentally, help him/her enjoy their stalking and promote wider ownership of firearms, now and in the future, then I'm afraid that's one dim stalker.

I really do wonder about that Mr Bandit, I really do wonder about that. I think that there are some that, apparently, don't realise it. I pay a fiver or a tenner more for BASC and not only do I get insurance and a dedicated firearms department but I even get a stalking scheme for members with land to shoot over!
 
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