Sub MOA.... What next?

2428 miles

Well-Known Member
Hi Reloaders,

I have been working up a load for my recently re barrelled 6.5x47L.

I went for a Lothar Walther #1400 - Heavy Weight Sporter barrel, 20 Inch in length with 1 in 8 twist.
I’m shooting Hornady SST 129grain heads.
RL 15
Federal Match primers

I have got on well with it and it's shooting sub MOA at 200yards and just about cloverleafs every time at 100yards…. If I do my bit! I have taken a number of deer with it and very happy with the performance.

It is my understanding however that this inherently accurate calibre is capable of even more with a little uber fine tuning!

My question is what is my next step?


Thanks in advance,
Miles
 
Hi try the cci-450 primers this cal seems to love them & is the recommended primer in this cal. I use them with 123g A-Max or 120g nosler & get 1/4" moa at 100yrd with H4350 but can no longer get this powder now.
 
Hi Reloaders,

I have been working up a load for my recently re barrelled 6.5x47L.

I went for a Lothar Walther #1400 - Heavy Weight Sporter barrel, 20 Inch in length with 1 in 8 twist.
I’m shooting Hornady SST 129grain heads.
RL 15
Federal Match primers

I have got on well with it and it's shooting sub MOA at 200yards and just about cloverleafs every time at 100yards…. If I do my bit! I have taken a number of deer with it and very happy with the performance.

It is my understanding however that this inherently accurate calibre is capable of even more with a little uber fine tuning!

My question is what is my next step?


Thanks in advance,
Miles

crack on with shooting it ?
 
Stop playing with it and go out and enjoy shooting it, it's already more than accurate enough for stalking.

If, on the other hand, you want to get into the anally retentive pursuit of diminishing group sizes go ahead and waste a lot of time and money :)

(No offence intended!)
 
Miles

I've found competition has improved my performance in the field. Try and find a form of competition in which you can use your current kit with a target load.

Regards

JCS
 
Hahaha thank you chaps! I take your point and I have indeed been shooting it and enjoying it.

I suppose the point I was getting at is that I think with a very small amount of adjustment (ie +/- 0.1 grain of powder or adjusting seating by 2thou) I might be able to tighten the group further....

Therefore, I suppose what I am asking is:
1.) What load development process do you go through
2.) Given I have reached this point with only making 1 grain increments with the powder and then 10thou adjustments to seating depth where would you suggest I go from here?

I appreciate everyone's input, thanks chaps!

Best,
Miles
 
The two easiest things to try (while keeping everything else constant) are powder weight and bullet seating depth.

I usually start by looking at the powder manufacturers data and picking the recommended accuracy load and see how it performs with my kit with my bullet seated 10thou off the lands. If (and only if) I think it can be made better I'll do a range of powder weights to try, 10 each with a .5gr difference, 5 below the accuracy load and 5 above it (assuming it's within the maximum load recommendation).

Then (hopefully) having found a better grouping I do more batches using the best powder weight but this time reducing the seating depth in increments of 10thou off the lands until I'm at the recommended COAL, for my Steyr this runs between 2.80 and 2.87" as it has a fairly large chambering. In my case the Steyr loves 168gr Nosler Custom Competition or A-Max seated with a COAL of 2.86" and 41gr of Viht N140.

If you want to spend more time, if you find the preferred seating depth isn't 10thou off the lands you can run the powder charge tests again and check the results.

That sounds a lot more complicated than it is but I hope it's some help. As usual I should point out that this is works for me, no doubt someone else will have a different/better/shorter method :)

The important thing in group size chasing is consistency/repeatability, only alter one thing at a time and keep excellent records.

Good luck :D
 
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Don't listen to the nai sayers ... Tinker tinker tinker I say.
Even the best groups can always be bettered .. :)
 
It cloverleafs at 100yds. How can you possibly improve on that for deerstalking? If it shoots that tightly I guess you are describing all the bullet holes on paper in some way cutting the edge of the bullet hole already made by the previous bullet. What's an improvement, one single hole measurimg 6.5mm for three rounds?

You are already shooting better than most guys can so personally I wouldn't waist a bit of my time playing with that any further. Its deer we are shooting, not paper targets at a bench rest competition...
 
You are already shooting better than most guys can so personally I wouldn't waist a bit of my time playing with that any further. Its deer we are shooting, not paper targets at a bench rest competition...

I take your point Jamross and I do agree with you and the others. I'm in it for the stalking above anything.... and I am happy with it for Stalking purposes.

But... I started the load development from scratch and so have done 95% of the work/effort/expense of ringing the maximum out of my set up.

I just wanted to ask others more experianced than me, what other small steps I can take now to gain that last 5%.

Also... that 5% is what makes a diffrence at extended ranges. I dont do a lot of longrange plinking but for that reason alone its worth trialing a few more rounds.
 
It cloverleafs at 100yds. How can you possibly improve on that for deerstalking? If it shoots that tightly I guess you are describing all the bullet holes on paper in some way cutting the edge of the bullet hole already made by the previous bullet. What's an improvement, one single hole measurimg 6.5mm for three rounds?

You are already shooting better than most guys can so personally I wouldn't waist a bit of my time playing with that any further. Its deer we are shooting, not paper targets at a bench rest competition...

I don't know, is it solely for deer stalking ?
The OP dosnt say in his original post, but i'm assuming if he has went to the trouble and expense
of having a custom rifle built, especially in that caliber he might want to punch
some paper as well.

Maybe its just me being pedantic, but I want to get the very bet out of
my rifle and cartridge, more so if its a custom build thats just set me back
a few K.

At the end of the day we could all shoot deer with an old stab chapped that
grouped 3" @ 100 yards, most however opt for the most accurite rifle / ammo
combination they can.
 
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Sub 2" at 200y? What scope are you using? I would expect 1" groups at 300yin good conditions from a well built rifle in that calibre. There is room for improvement, search for it and enjoy!

 
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Try your loads at 300 /400/500/600/700yds and more if you have the room to shoot it those distances!!
It will tell you a hell of allot of what your loads and yourself are shooting at those ranges in different conditions!!!;)
I know you will be shooting deer at the shorter ranges , but i find personally the longer range target shooting makes me more disciplined in trigger control / follow through / breathing control , all helps when hunting!!!
All the best....
 
That's a nice group Gary - Is that a proper 5 shot group or a girly 3 shot group? :
3 Shot, 6.5*47 lap in a field with a sporting rifle shot prone off Harris bipod and rear bag at 100m

this is a 5 shot group

 
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Quite a few other factors to consider when you start searching for good groups a bit further out than 100, including

stock quality/fit
bedding
trigger quality and pull technique
scope mag/quality/alignment
Brass prep effort/technique/care
reloading equipment quality
bipod/rear bag setup
And most of all, you!

keep at it and keep us posted.

might be worth trying a 120/123 gn bullet, seems to be optimum weight for the 47. Flat based 120gn pro hunters shoot well in mine up to 300 but loose out to the boat tails at 500 and above.
 
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Quite a few other factors to consider when you start searching for good groups a bit further out than 100, including

stock quality/fit
bedding
trigger quality and pull technique
scope mag/quality/alignment
Brass prep effort/technique/care
reloading equipment quality
bipod/rear bag setup
And most of all, you!

keep at it and keep us posted.......

Gary is spot on. It's also illuminating (and frustrating) to see how well other folk can shoot your kit. The best group shot with my 243 Ackley by far, was by my 88 year old Dad with no bipods or rear bags. Some folk can just shoot, but the rest of us have to work hard at it and keep checking that bad habits haven't crept into the picture.

I went to a couple of Bradley's sessions last year and found that very helpful - Professional firearm Training courses for novice and experienced users and time permitting will try to do some more this year.

Best regards

JCS
 
Gary is spot on. It's also illuminating (and frustrating) to see how well other folk can shoot your kit. The best group shot with my 243 Ackley by far, was by my 88 year old Dad with no bipods or rear bags. Some folk can just shoot, but the rest of us have to work hard at it and keep checking that bad habits haven't crept into the picture.


JCS

Ditto, same here, good friend of mine takes great pleasure in shooting my 243 Ackley, once it was all sorted, and sneaking a delightfully small group out of it at 200yds.

There are responses from all ends of spectrum, I think the only motivation for asking the question you posed is because YOU DO want more - think you have done very well so far but also agree there may be more to come. IMHO I would settle on the load you have and continue stalking with that, but I would be developing loads on the sidelines. Again on a personal note, maybe due to OCD, once I have settled on a powder, primer and bullet I will ONLY use those same components to work in the sidelines - no foreign residues down the barrel once it is set. Everyone has rituals......
 
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